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	<title>Comments on: Drafty</title>
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	<link>http://donklephant.com/2005/07/19/331/</link>
	<description>Big Teeth. Huge Ass. Surprisingly Reasonable.</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 20:56:56 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Joshua</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2005/07/19/331/comment-page-1/#comment-830</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Aug 2005 19:21:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2005/07/19/331/#comment-830</guid>
		<description>According to an upcoming book, &lt;a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8787498/" rel="nofollow"&gt;Jimi Hendrix pretended to be gay to get out of the Army&lt;/a&gt; before the Vietnam war. (Maybe he really &lt;b&gt;was&lt;/b&gt; singing "'Scuse me while I kiss this guy" after all...)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>According to an upcoming book, <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8787498/" rel="nofollow">Jimi Hendrix pretended to be gay to get out of the Army</a> before the Vietnam war. (Maybe he really <b>was</b> singing &#8220;&#8216;Scuse me while I kiss this guy&#8221; after all&#8230;)</p>
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		<title>By: Justin Gardner</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2005/07/19/331/comment-page-1/#comment-589</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin Gardner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jul 2005 21:14:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2005/07/19/331/#comment-589</guid>
		<description>A nation of Klingers. Ha! Good one.

Why we even have the deeply flawed "don't ask, don't tell" is beyond me. It just creates a culture of hatred around something that is within their ranks anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A nation of Klingers. Ha! Good one.</p>
<p>Why we even have the deeply flawed &#8220;don&#8217;t ask, don&#8217;t tell&#8221; is beyond me. It just creates a culture of hatred around something that is within their ranks anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: Callimachus</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2005/07/19/331/comment-page-1/#comment-587</link>
		<dc:creator>Callimachus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jul 2005 20:57:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2005/07/19/331/#comment-587</guid>
		<description>A nation of Klingers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A nation of Klingers.</p>
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		<title>By: Joshua</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2005/07/19/331/comment-page-1/#comment-585</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jul 2005 20:38:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2005/07/19/331/#comment-585</guid>
		<description>Actually the kind of draft Rep. Rangel favors is not selective service, but rather requiring ALL able-bodied men of a certain age to serve for a certain number of years, be it peacetime or war.

Of course this would entail a fundamental re-structuring of the Army itself, not to mention that "don't ask, don't tell" would probably go out the window - not because it's discriminatory to gay people, but because it would make it all too easy for reluctant draftees to game the system by pretending to be gay.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually the kind of draft Rep. Rangel favors is not selective service, but rather requiring ALL able-bodied men of a certain age to serve for a certain number of years, be it peacetime or war.</p>
<p>Of course this would entail a fundamental re-structuring of the Army itself, not to mention that &#8220;don&#8217;t ask, don&#8217;t tell&#8221; would probably go out the window - not because it&#8217;s discriminatory to gay people, but because it would make it all too easy for reluctant draftees to game the system by pretending to be gay.</p>
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		<title>By: Beth</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2005/07/19/331/comment-page-1/#comment-380</link>
		<dc:creator>Beth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jul 2005 23:25:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2005/07/19/331/#comment-380</guid>
		<description>I'm of two minds ... i served right at the end of the viet nam draft, and up into the volunteer army. There is no doubt the volunteer army is more professional and capable. However, one cannot deny the greatness of our WWII forces. A great deal of it has to do with motivation and how the war is perceived.

While I think a draft into the military is probably not a good thing (especially in the middle of a somewhat unpopular war), I do think that some form of service should be required of which the military could be one option.

Many european countries do that very successful (although none to my knowledge require it of both men and women -- and if we did this, we should).

In return for their service, young people would receive a post-secondary education. Sounds like a fair trade to me ... and I think it would give them a bit more appreciation for their country as well as level the playing field somewhat between economic classes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m of two minds &#8230; i served right at the end of the viet nam draft, and up into the volunteer army. There is no doubt the volunteer army is more professional and capable. However, one cannot deny the greatness of our WWII forces. A great deal of it has to do with motivation and how the war is perceived.</p>
<p>While I think a draft into the military is probably not a good thing (especially in the middle of a somewhat unpopular war), I do think that some form of service should be required of which the military could be one option.</p>
<p>Many european countries do that very successful (although none to my knowledge require it of both men and women &#8212; and if we did this, we should).</p>
<p>In return for their service, young people would receive a post-secondary education. Sounds like a fair trade to me &#8230; and I think it would give them a bit more appreciation for their country as well as level the playing field somewhat between economic classes.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2005/07/19/331/comment-page-1/#comment-365</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jul 2005 19:12:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2005/07/19/331/#comment-365</guid>
		<description>Another aspect of this issue is the stand the military takes. They think the idea reeks. It is a degrading insult to thier professionalism that they might be equated with conscripts, and on the practical level, it is worse than useless. A large percentage of conscripts would be worthless, either because they are too overweight to train effectively, or because they are too spoiled and selfish to be worth even the bullet it would take to correct the situation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another aspect of this issue is the stand the military takes. They think the idea reeks. It is a degrading insult to thier professionalism that they might be equated with conscripts, and on the practical level, it is worse than useless. A large percentage of conscripts would be worthless, either because they are too overweight to train effectively, or because they are too spoiled and selfish to be worth even the bullet it would take to correct the situation.</p>
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		<title>By: Callimachus</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2005/07/19/331/comment-page-1/#comment-362</link>
		<dc:creator>Callimachus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jul 2005 19:08:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2005/07/19/331/#comment-362</guid>
		<description>HR 163, Jim McDermott and Charles Rangel. Look up their Iraq positions.

Here's McDermott on the bill:
&lt;blockquote&gt;
&lt;i&gt;"I believe that if those who are pushing for war knew that their children might be required to share the burden of that war, there might be a greater willingness to work toward peace and a diplomatic solution. If, despite our best efforts, we end up in armed conflict, then fairness dictates that the sons and daughters of all classes participate."&lt;/i&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
It's our old friend the "chickenhawk meme," with legal backing. If he really thinks a drafted army wouldn't be disproportionately poor and minority, he doesn't know much about history.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HR 163, Jim McDermott and Charles Rangel. Look up their Iraq positions.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s McDermott on the bill:</p>
<blockquote><p>
<i>&#8220;I believe that if those who are pushing for war knew that their children might be required to share the burden of that war, there might be a greater willingness to work toward peace and a diplomatic solution. If, despite our best efforts, we end up in armed conflict, then fairness dictates that the sons and daughters of all classes participate.&#8221;</i>
</p></blockquote>
<p>It&#8217;s our old friend the &#8220;chickenhawk meme,&#8221; with legal backing. If he really thinks a drafted army wouldn&#8217;t be disproportionately poor and minority, he doesn&#8217;t know much about history.</p>
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		<title>By: Montag</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2005/07/19/331/comment-page-1/#comment-353</link>
		<dc:creator>Montag</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jul 2005 03:51:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2005/07/19/331/#comment-353</guid>
		<description>I agree wholeheartedly.  One question:
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;em&gt;It doesnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t surprise me that the most vocal supporters of a draft so far have been the politicians most opposed to the war itself, and to the Bush Administration.&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Is this true?  I haven't heard much of a call for this from politicians, I am vaguely aware that there is legislation circulating, however I assume it has little support because nothing seems to come of it. 
&lt;blockquote&gt;[Continued] &lt;em&gt;Reviving the draft would restore a crucial piece to the Ã¢â‚¬Å“Iraq=VietnamÃ¢â‚¬Â? storyline, and the social turmoil and resentment that a draft would cause would spark the fire they long for, to embarrass the government and the war.&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Anti-war politicians using the draft for political purposes, as with all forms of exploitation, is immoral; for all of the reasons you state, especially the one in the paragraph prior to the above quote:
&lt;blockquote&gt;...the exemptions, however well-meant in theory, would be widely abused; the richer class of men of military age inevitably would find it easier to avoid service.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
If you believe the war is wrong, why make it even wronger through state coersion?

Nice post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree wholeheartedly.  One question:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>It doesnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t surprise me that the most vocal supporters of a draft so far have been the politicians most opposed to the war itself, and to the Bush Administration.</em></p></blockquote>
<p>Is this true?  I haven&#8217;t heard much of a call for this from politicians, I am vaguely aware that there is legislation circulating, however I assume it has little support because nothing seems to come of it. </p>
<blockquote><p>[Continued] <em>Reviving the draft would restore a crucial piece to the Ã¢â‚¬Å“Iraq=VietnamÃ¢â‚¬Â? storyline, and the social turmoil and resentment that a draft would cause would spark the fire they long for, to embarrass the government and the war.</em></p></blockquote>
<p>Anti-war politicians using the draft for political purposes, as with all forms of exploitation, is immoral; for all of the reasons you state, especially the one in the paragraph prior to the above quote:</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8230;the exemptions, however well-meant in theory, would be widely abused; the richer class of men of military age inevitably would find it easier to avoid service.</p></blockquote>
<p>If you believe the war is wrong, why make it even wronger through state coersion?</p>
<p>Nice post.</p>
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