http://donklephant.com/2005/08/09/hitch-talks-iraq/ Big Teeth. Huge Ass. Surprisingly Reasonable. Sun, 22 Nov 2009 10:53:41 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 http://donklephant.com/2005/08/09/hitch-talks-iraq/comment-page-1/#comment-1082 Lord George N. Curzon Wed, 10 Aug 2005 04:49:53 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2005/08/09/hitch-talks-iraq/#comment-1082 <a href="http://www.cominganarchy.com/archives/2005/08/08/does-the-left-want-us-to-lose-in-iraq-why/" rel="nofollow">I also loved the article, but there were some good counterpoints in the comments section of my post on it.</a> I also loved the article, but there were some good counterpoints in the comments section of my post on it.

]]> http://donklephant.com/2005/08/09/hitch-talks-iraq/comment-page-1/#comment-1063 Rachel Tue, 09 Aug 2005 23:51:42 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2005/08/09/hitch-talks-iraq/#comment-1063 what if Bush Sr. was right and the people rebelled and punished Hussein, thus being out of power? do you think it would be all sunshine? what is happening now is exactly what would have happened ten or so years ago - the fight between the majority Shites destroying the minority Sunni power, with the stronger chance of being a theocracy. I am a moderate liberal who was originally against the iraq war. but after seeing how people give up so quickly at the face of adversity, it left me wondering if we had the same challenge in Afghanistan would we have dealt with it or accuse Bush Jr. of "killing our sons?" It also makes me wonder if we would have had the same attitude in WW II what if Bush Sr. was right and the people rebelled and punished Hussein, thus being out of power? do you think it would be all sunshine? what is happening now is exactly what would have happened ten or so years ago – the fight between the majority Shites destroying the minority Sunni power, with the stronger chance of being a theocracy.
I am a moderate liberal who was originally against the iraq war. but after seeing how people give up so quickly at the face of adversity, it left me wondering if we had the same challenge in Afghanistan would we have dealt with it or accuse Bush Jr. of “killing our sons?”
It also makes me wonder if we would have had the same attitude in WW II

]]> http://donklephant.com/2005/08/09/hitch-talks-iraq/comment-page-1/#comment-1060 Jon Gallagher Tue, 09 Aug 2005 21:17:43 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2005/08/09/hitch-talks-iraq/#comment-1060 <em>It never seemed to me that there was any alternative to confronting the reality of Iraq, which was already on the verge of implosion and might, if left to rot and crash, have become to the region what the Congo is to Central Africa: a vortex of chaos and misery that would draw in opportunistic interventions from Turkey, Iran, and Saudi Arabia. ...</em> There is no one in Iraq, besides the Iraqi people, whose interest is served by peace now. If you are a Kurd, why give up your autonomy? If you are Shiite, why give up your position of power? If you are Sunni, chaos serves you better, because peace may bring Shiite payback. Who fears the Coalition forces enough to pay them any attention? We have proven that we can destroy anything we like, but can we build, and more importantly protect what we build? And, most importantly, is what we build what the people want? We know we were led into this war by less than honest information about what really was going on in the country (via Chalabi, Curveball, et al). We still don't really know what is going on the country, because we can't leave our compounds to find out. Read Steven Vincent's last blog entry before he was gunned down in Basra (http://tinyurl.com/8f3m2). This is an account of a good man trying to do good, and not knowing how, related by someone who supported the war effort wholeheartedly. The most frustrating thing for me personally is that everyone I know that opposed the war thought it both a diversion from the "war" on terror, and a dangerous precedent to show the gulf region. Our enemies in the Arab and Muslim worlds would point to the fact that we would give up on Osama and invade a country full of oil on a manufactured pretext. At the time I thought that to be propagandistic hyperbole, not the God's honext truth. It never seemed to me that there was any alternative to confronting the reality of Iraq, which was already on the verge of implosion and might, if left to rot and crash, have become to the region what the Congo is to Central Africa: a vortex of chaos and misery that would draw in opportunistic interventions from Turkey, Iran, and Saudi Arabia. …
There is no one in Iraq, besides the Iraqi people, whose interest is served by peace now. If you are a Kurd, why give up your autonomy? If you are Shiite, why give up your position of power? If you are Sunni, chaos serves you better, because peace may bring Shiite payback.
Who fears the Coalition forces enough to pay them any attention? We have proven that we can destroy anything we like, but can we build, and more importantly protect what we build? And, most importantly, is what we build what the people want?
We know we were led into this war by less than honest information about what really was going on in the country (via Chalabi, Curveball, et al). We still don’t really know what is going on the country, because we can’t leave our compounds to find out. Read Steven Vincent’s last blog entry before he was gunned down in Basra (http://tinyurl.com/8f3m2). This is an account of a good man trying to do good, and not knowing how, related by someone who supported the war effort wholeheartedly.
The most frustrating thing for me personally is that everyone I know that opposed the war thought it both a diversion from the “war” on terror, and a dangerous precedent to show the gulf region. Our enemies in the Arab and Muslim worlds would point to the fact that we would give up on Osama and invade a country full of oil on a manufactured pretext. At the time I thought that to be propagandistic hyperbole, not the God’s honext truth.

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