All this reminds me more than a little of the aftermath of the death of Paul Wellstone, the late senator from my home state of Minnesota, just before the 2002 elections. The Dems basically turned his memorial service into a political rally for Walter Mondale, whom they brought in to run in Wellstone’s place. That didn’t sit very well with voters in Minnesota who elected Norm Coleman instead. I suspect that this attempt to turn Casey Sheehan into a martyr for the anti-war left will also end up backfiring on the left in a big way.

So I won’t guess as to whether you’ve seen the video of the Paul Wellstone memorial service or not, but I believe this is one of those myths that just keeps going around without anybody showing people what really happened. The following is a link to some of the audio and video from the proceedings. http://www.startribune.com/stories/1752/3397898.html

In my mind, this was ANYTHING but a rally for Mondale. I agree that Rick Kahn went too far, but his was only ONE voice and ONE speech. Again, I don’t think that it turns this into a political rally, and I was pretty angry when the conservatives (and Jesse Ventura) turned this into something that it was not.

But hey, watch the video and listen to the audio and judge for yourself.

No way of knowing for sure about successful pre-emption.

I also stated that, had Kerry been elected, Israel would have unilaterally attacked Iran to stop their nuke development. The need to protect the ONLY democracy in the Middle East is a real issue.

But Bush as a fundie for Revelations is silly.

And this thread is about Cindy S, the publicity seeking greiving mother who prefers Civil War in Iraq over her son dying; who would prolly agree that ending genocide in Sudan is NOT worth the life of her son; and likely voted for Clinton in 1996 after he successfuly avoided any US casualties in claiming “NO genocide” in Rwanda.

She lost her son, and DOES have the right to her opinion. But if she’s joining the political debate, and attacking the President, her grief MUST not insulate her from political attacks.

What is worth fighting for, killing for, dying for? It doesn’t seem worth it for a loss.

She’s already met the President; who’s already kissed her. Here are some fotos:
http://mhking.mu.nu/archives/111696.php

According to Bush’s neolithic fundamentalist views, Israel is to be protected in its existence as a nation because her existence is necessary for a literal interpretation of the book of Revelations in the christian myth collection otherwise known as the bible. These christian fundies think of the Jews as pets to keep around so they can have their little apocalypse, after which the nation of Israel is to be judged harshly for not recognizing the messiah when they saw him and sentenced to eternal damnation. Now THAT’S anti-semitism, and of the worst kind.

What would be awesome is if 100,000 people joined Sheehan. That would send a message.

I know it’s a slow news day. But that’s an awful lot of coverage.

The AP slugs its stories on her “Bush-Peace-Mom.” That’s a bit disingenuous. She’s not asking for peace. She’s asking for all the American troops to be brought home — which is sure to unleash a whole lot of non-peace on Iraq and beyond. If she has an argument that bringing the troops home now will pacify Iraq, I haven’t read it in her words.

Neither does she claim she was against the war if it had been fought for the reasons she insists Bush put forth in 2002, but lied about.

Look, she’s a grieving mother. She deserves our sympathy, prayers, patience, and a glass of cold tea and a seat in she shade if she wants to make her protest in Texas in August.

But since when did being a victim confer instant moral authority? She was saying the same things before Casey was killed. She wasn’t in 70 of 200 news stories on April 3, 2004.

This isn’t a slam at her. It’s a slam at the media.

If this one mother, because of what happened to her son, becomes, in the media’s vision, the sole possessor of the high ground in the debate over what ought to be done in Iraq, what about the thousand-some other American mothers who have not gone to where the cameras are?

http://tinyurl.com/b8xgf

“Am I emotional? Yes, my first born was murdered. Am I angry? Yes, he was killed for lies and for a PNAC Neo-Con agenda to benefit Israel. My son joined the Army to protect America, not Israel.”

(here)

You may find them here

“Am I emotional? Yes, my first born was murdered. Am I angry? Yes, he was killed for lies and for a PNAC Neo-Con agenda to benefit Israel. My son joined the Army to protect America, not Israel. Am I stupid? No, I know full-well that my son, my family, this nation, and this world were betrayed by a George Bush who was influenced by the neo-con PNAC agenda after 9/11.”

“It was the unstated threat. Iraq wasn’t going to attack America or nuke America. But Iraq was a threat — to Israel. That was the real threat and had been for fifteen years. But for the US government this was the threat that couldn’t speak its name. Europe doesn’t care much about that threat. And the US government didn’t think they should lean too much on it, because going to war to protect Israel wouldn’t be popular.”

“We’re not letting them intimidate us. If we get killed out here, know that
the Secret Service killed us.�

I suspect that Sheehan’s words WHEN publicized will do more to hurt the already anti-semitic, lunatic conspiracy laden anti-war movement than anything else.

Particularly when there is the sense of waiting for the other bin Laden shoe to drop (and we are fighting him in Iraq and Afghanistan, while Sherman wants a full bore retreat from both and handing over those two nations to bin Laden); and the scandal over Able Danger which MAY show (and again, may not) that bin Laden and Saddam DID co-operate on 9/11.

Imagine the impact of THAT. That the 9/11 Commission was WRONG and that Mohammed Atta DID meet with Iraqi intelligence in Prague to co-ordinate the 9/11 attack (as Iraqi Intelligence helped “Ramzi Yousef” or whatever his name was in the 1993 WTC bombing). Not saying it’s true but the impact of the 9/11 Commission blowing off the Able Danger info is politically VERY dangerous to Dems. Sherman is the last thing people of Dem persuasion need.

A cynic might detect the hand of Wes Clark, Kerry, and Dean-o attempting to derail the Clinton nomination through pushing this story.

Grieving mothers do all kinds of things and they should be lookked on leniently. As other commenters point out, casey Sheehan went out and ofered his life. In other words, he was acting as an adult. Cindy Sheehan would not be the first mother to have a big problem with that kind of thing. But she really isn’t fair game for public censure, however public she is being at the moment.

Besdies, there are other people involved, other people’ sons and daughters, and the outcome of the debate impacts them too. Cindy Sheehan’s statement may keep them from going eventually. It just gives added weight to one angle of the debate.

You are assuming that anything other than “thugs” are in charge now…

Re: your “Sheehan Familyâ€Â? is vague …

The rift Cindy Sheehan is having with her “family” is with her in-laws …

Per an interview on AAR yesterday, Cindy clarified it … In particular, her father-in-law, who she said it has been long-standing … Up until her son was killed, it was good-natured jabs and jokes … She said that she hasn’t spoken with her in-laws since then …

As to her own family, husband and other children are 100% firmly behind her …

Peace
JTD

(Father)Pat and (mother) Cindy Sheehan are pictured, here with the Bronze Star awarded their son, posthumously, for his sacrifice in Falluja.

Spec 4 Casey Sheehan re-enlisted after his first hitch. He volunteered for the Falluja mission. He gave his life. It would be a lie to claim it was “taken” by any one other than the Iranian/Syrian/Saudi/Al Qaida armed death squads then afflicting the new Iraqi nation. The death squads, by the way, had taken over municipal office buildings in Fallujah, killing Iraqi officials and police as well as US civilian “contractors” the week before. They were out by the week following Spc Sheehan’s heroism.

If Casey Sheehan and his fellow soldiers had NOT risked death the thugs would still be in charge.

Cindy Sheehan wants to ask Shrub why her little boy died.

I’m sorry, but this is wrong question.

A man died, in a just cause. And no words can explain sufficiently “why” men choose to do so.

Thank God they do.

So far I don’t recall hearing about members of the families of those victims camping out on the President’s driveway demanding an audience to discuss their plan on how to prevent all that carnage.

With plenty of Bush-haters along for the ride, Sheehan is doing exactly what her family describes – and they, if anyone, should know. As for the last sentence that bothers you, you might want to read it again – it doesn’t mention Sheehan, and it’s obviously *their opinion* that she has forfeited her right to any respect from them. So while you may think Sheehan deserves more respect, they obviously disagree.

Justin’s position: She lost her son. She has a right to protest, publicly, putting Bush in an “impossible” position.
Family (not father) has a right to protest her protest, BUT …

Is there something unclear in the family statement: “she now appears to be promoting her own personal agenda”. That’s what it looks like, that’s what Justin “agrees” is the case, putting Bush on the Spot.

But it bothers him. So he also attacks their “silent” claim. Well, they make the claim first, too (cut out). Their criticism is that the Mom is not silent. So they LOUDLY say to Mom, BE QUIET.

Where is the review of the purpose of the protest? To “talk to Bush” — to get him to end the war.

Let’s go back 35 years, 1970, Vietnam war; protests were to end the war; a “senseless war” to many. Protests successful, 1974 the US leaves; “loses” Vietnam, genocide follows. No anti-war protesters accept any responsibility for genocide; most Viet Vets question whether they ever should have fought. They were fighting evil. In the fight, good men died. Mothers cried. But good mothers understand that fighting evil is not free.

The issue is whether the US should fight evil, or not. In Sudan today, not. In Rwanda 11 years ago, not. What about Iraq? Mom seems to say, not.

Her family is trying to stop her from tearing down the US fight against evil. I don’t think anybody should be so disappointed, unless they do NOT want to fight evil.