The Islamic State Of Iraq
By Justin Gardner | Related entries in Bad Decisions, Foreign Policy, The War On Terrorism, WarLooks like the US is conceding to Islamic Law:
“We understand the Americans have sided with the Shi’ites,” he said. “It’s shocking. It doesn’t fit American values. They have spent so much blood and money here, only to back the creation of an Islamist state … I can’t believe that’s what the Americans really want or what the American people want.”Washington, with 140,000 troops still in Iraq, has insisted Iraqis are free to govern themselves but made clear it will not approve the kind of clerical rule seen in Shi’ite Iran, a state U.S. President George W. Bush describes as “evil”.
U.S. ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad has been guiding intensive meetings since parliament averted its own dissolution on Monday by giving constitution drafters another week to resolve crucial differences over regional autonomy and division of oil revenues.
Failing to finish by midnight on August 22 could provoke new elections and, effectively, a return to the drawing board for the entire constitutional process.
This entry was posted on Monday, August 22nd, 2005 and is filed under Bad Decisions, Foreign Policy, The War On Terrorism, War. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.
August 22nd, 2005 at 11:10 am
I’m glad to see this being conceded here. But given this, was the Iraq war justified?
August 22nd, 2005 at 12:03 pm
Not a huge surprise- have to admit that I saw that one coming pre-War. But Scott asks a legitimate question- even so, was the War justified? From our perspective, the material question is- is the new government better for us than Saddam? Hard to imagine it could be any worse… but who knows? We’ll have to wait and see.
August 22nd, 2005 at 1:10 pm
The republican in me is pissed. My support for the war has just diminished to nearly nothing.
August 22nd, 2005 at 1:42 pm
I’ve actually made this point all along, but I’m only speaking for myself on this one. I don’t speak for the other authors on this site.
And we can talk about this war being justified all day long and not really get anywhere, but I think kreiz asks the more important question. Is this new government better or worse than Saddam’s regime? We’ll have to wait and see, but I think the answer is MUCH more likely to be fall into the “better” category.
And craig, no doubt these things are frustrating, but I think we have to have some patience with this one. Obviously the neo-cons dream scenario of democracy catching on like wildfire in the ME was extremely wishful thinking, but I do agree that this has to start somewhere and perhaps a domino effect will be seen down the road. For everybody’s sake, let’s hope so.
August 22nd, 2005 at 2:54 pm
First of all, I think we’re giving up on Iraqi democracy far too easy. Obviously their constitution will not be written by the ACLU, and it will make some sort of bow to Islam.
If (as some people want to argue) Iraq is incapable of making anything other than another repressive Islamic “republic”, then we have to consider the possibility that Islam (not just RADICAL Islam) is incompatible with civilization (period!) and the only way to govern Muslims is the way Turkey does it: secularism at gunpoint.
Do the get-Bush-at-all-costs people want to rush to embrace that conclusion?
August 22nd, 2005 at 3:47 pm
‘glen’, you should get a brain before writing such stupid comments, Islam is just a religion, it doesn’t have anything to do with politics, it’s only that some states make it seem that way..
August 22nd, 2005 at 4:07 pm
If the way things stand today — this hour, I should stay — holds up and Iraq ends up getting an “Islamic” constitution, that would be a disappointment in the short run but perhaps not a killer.
1. One of the mantras of the war on Islamist terror has been “radical Islam is the problem; moderate Islam is the solution.” If moderate Islam gets a good star turn in Iraq, so much the better for the war against Islamist terror.
2. There’s reason to believe that moderation in Islam will have to rise to the cause in Iraq. This is not Iran, where one school of Islamic jurisprudence can totally dominate and marginalize all the rest. Cooperation and compromise between Sunni (of whatever school) and Shi’a will have to happen, if the government is to function. Secularist and non-Islamic delegates could become key swing voters and coalition partners.
I would be truly sorry for the sake of the secular Iraqis, and I would demand that the U.S. would exert every possible influence to insure that their interests were protected.
But perhaps we ought to remember that our own Constitution set the country running in a very imperfect condition, as we should judge things now, in terms of equal rights and personal freedoms. The great thing about constitutional governments is that they have the mechanism of their own growth and change built in to them.
August 22nd, 2005 at 7:37 pm
me: ‘glen’, you should get a brain before writing such stupid comments …
And you should read my comment before popping your gaskets. The idea that Muslims (and Arabs in general) are hopelessly screwed, and that any attempt to treat them as otherwise is futile, is the logical conclusion of those who want to abandon Iraq. Not my conclusion.
August 22nd, 2005 at 9:48 pm
me, cut it out. And If you feel the need to throw out ad hominems, please go somewhere else. You could have made your points without them and they only make you look bad.
August 23rd, 2005 at 7:30 am
Scot,
There has always been the possibility of Islam being a part of the new government, I wasn’t nieve enough to think that it would be a completely secular government. But the good thing is that there are 3 distinct groups which I’m hoping keeps things in balance. There are 2 other groups with enough power to keep the Shiia from completely taking over.
If we were to go in and ‘install’ our government there, it wouldn’t have been looked at as anything but a puppet government and would have lacked the legitimacy needed to the Iraqi people. They have to come up with their own government without undue pressure from the US.
I do believe it is worth it for several reasons: 1) we would have another ally in the region, 2) we know where we stand with WMD in that country, 3)Since Iraq would be an ally, it is possible that they might be able to influence Iran in their nuke program to our advantage 4)This is only the first draft – there will be things tried that didn’t work the way that they imagined and changes will be made (just like our government did).
Justin,
The domino effect has already started in Lebanon, etc. It will take time and they will have to try various things to find the right balance. Our government didn’t just appear one day, it took years of debate, trial and error, etc. and we still continued to make changes to it! I can’t help but get aggravated with people that demand that it be solved in a 2 hr. movie…. this is real life! The media does this constantly, demanding an answer as to why this is taking so long…. it just reconfirms in my mind that the media is made up of idiots!!! How many times have you heard a reporter ask somebody what did they feel when they heard that the body of the naked rape body found in the river was their mother??? WTF??? Just once I would love to hear somebody answer with – Well Duh, how do you think I felt???? The media is nothing but sensationalism so they can sell their product, it is a shame that most of America doesn’t see that yet!!!
August 23rd, 2005 at 9:35 am
And just to repudiate “me” one last time – as this point bears repeating – Islam does have a political dimension. The very existence of shari’a (Islamic law that is intended to govern society) bears this out. Indeed, the political aspect of Islam is what this whole shebang – 9/11, the Taliban, the Iranian hostages, the Beirut bombing of ‘83, the London and Madrid bombings, the Iraq insurgency, yada yada yada – is really all about.
Now, it’s still way too early in the game to tell whether a shari’a regime in Iraq is more likely to lead to democracy or to a resurrected Caliphate, or whether the Shi’a implementing their brand of shari’a is likely to anger the Sunnis and/or Kurds. Still, this concession is more than a little depressing. Why fight terrorism done in the name of Islamic rule, only to turn around and all but endorse the selfsame style of regime in Iraq?
December 23rd, 2006 at 1:28 am
Hey isn`t it democracy in Irak now?Isn`t democracy in Israel now?or in Palestine?or in US?
To me it look like thats what US is really spreading around the world ,to me it is EXACTLY how DEMOCRACY look like….. DEMOCRACY =WAR ,WAR and KILLING for any reason or for no reason at all ,that`s what DEMOKRACY is all about and really means……..Hey let spread DEMOKRACY AROUND THE WORLD ……it will be fun………
And remember there was NO SECTARIAN OR RELIGIAN killing in IRAQ or YUGOSLAVIA ,before DEMOKRACY>>>>>THERE WAS NONE!!!!!!!!!