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	<title>Comments on: Touchstone</title>
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	<description>Big Teeth. Huge Ass. Surprisingly Reasonable.</description>
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		<title>By: Callimachus</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2005/09/23/touchstone/comment-page-1/#comment-2449</link>
		<dc:creator>Callimachus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Sep 2005 23:15:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=931#comment-2449</guid>
		<description>There is a well of nationalism, and national pride, and an obsession with humiliating national enemies, that runs deeply in Iranian popular culture. It&#039;s a result, in part, of the complex interplay of Persian history and Islam. People everywhere tend to be compromising, get-along, non-fanatical. But the degree of that isn&#039;t always the same from one nation to the next.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a well of nationalism, and national pride, and an obsession with humiliating national enemies, that runs deeply in Iranian popular culture. It&#8217;s a result, in part, of the complex interplay of Persian history and Islam. People everywhere tend to be compromising, get-along, non-fanatical. But the degree of that isn&#8217;t always the same from one nation to the next.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Brinkley</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2005/09/23/touchstone/comment-page-1/#comment-2439</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Brinkley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Sep 2005 20:00:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=931#comment-2439</guid>
		<description>Very good point, indeed.

This is very similar to the popular theme that evil can triumph simply by having good people do nothing, or the theme that the opposite of good is not evil, but rather apathy.  This is a theme with considerable force.

I feel as if good has to have some apathy, innately.  To some extent, the good of the world DO have to tolerate, trust, be open-minded, and so on.  To do otherwise is to relinquish some good.  An active good stomps on any deviation from good, wherever it sees it.  Before long, we realize how fascism can be a successful enough form of government to actually come into power, on occasion.  (Luckily, we currently have considerable vigilance for it, as well.)

Work through this cycle enough times - good/apathetic -&gt; good/activist -&gt; fascist -&gt; evil -&gt; good/apathetic - and if you&#039;re like me, you come to see good&#039;s main adversary as not evil, nor even apathy, but finally, innate ignorance.  In any typical situation, we don&#039;t recognize evil precisely enough to excise it while leaving the good.  Our tools are still too blunt, and so are our senses.  We can&#039;t know, most of the time.  (Though I suppose we could improve that.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very good point, indeed.</p>
<p>This is very similar to the popular theme that evil can triumph simply by having good people do nothing, or the theme that the opposite of good is not evil, but rather apathy.  This is a theme with considerable force.</p>
<p>I feel as if good has to have some apathy, innately.  To some extent, the good of the world DO have to tolerate, trust, be open-minded, and so on.  To do otherwise is to relinquish some good.  An active good stomps on any deviation from good, wherever it sees it.  Before long, we realize how fascism can be a successful enough form of government to actually come into power, on occasion.  (Luckily, we currently have considerable vigilance for it, as well.)</p>
<p>Work through this cycle enough times &#8211; good/apathetic -&gt; good/activist -&gt; fascist -&gt; evil -&gt; good/apathetic &#8211; and if you&#8217;re like me, you come to see good&#8217;s main adversary as not evil, nor even apathy, but finally, innate ignorance.  In any typical situation, we don&#8217;t recognize evil precisely enough to excise it while leaving the good.  Our tools are still too blunt, and so are our senses.  We can&#8217;t know, most of the time.  (Though I suppose we could improve that.)</p>
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		<title>By: Justin Gardner</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2005/09/23/touchstone/comment-page-1/#comment-2438</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin Gardner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Sep 2005 19:29:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=931#comment-2438</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;The more I read history, the more I realize that the great Bogeyman of history are silent majorities that fail to act upon their convictions. There may be sound reasons for silence and fear in the face of minority extremists; but nonetheless, those extremists have made lots of horrible history. Was all that horrible history written in spite of or because of the silent majorities?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Good point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The more I read history, the more I realize that the great Bogeyman of history are silent majorities that fail to act upon their convictions. There may be sound reasons for silence and fear in the face of minority extremists; but nonetheless, those extremists have made lots of horrible history. Was all that horrible history written in spite of or because of the silent majorities?</p></blockquote>
<p>Good point.</p>
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		<title>By: Cicero</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2005/09/23/touchstone/comment-page-1/#comment-2426</link>
		<dc:creator>Cicero</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Sep 2005 15:52:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=931#comment-2426</guid>
		<description>Elyas and Justin,

It&#039;s true that the Mullahs of Iran and their party are in the minority.  But given the Iranian mullahs&#039; nuclear mission, their minority status seems irrelevant compared to the threat they pose to the world. Once they have Allah&#039;s Bomb, it&#039;s a whole new ball game for the entire planet. Whether or not their fundamentalist ideology is in the majority or the minority makes little difference if there is no credible threat to stop them -- either internally within Persia or externally from the West.

The majority of Iranians are no more capable of mutilating people than the majority or Afghans are. Yet Abhaseen Barikzy&#039;s suffering is emblematic of an international movement devised  to counter the West, such as it is. They draw potency from the silent majority -- among Muslims and among secularists. 

The more I read history, the more I realize that the great Bogeyman of history are silent majorities that fail to act upon their convictions. There may be sound reasons for silence and fear in the face of minority extremists; but nonetheless, those extremists have made lots of horrible history. Was all that horrible history written in spite of or because of the silent majorities?

Perhaps good can overcome evil only when evil gets beyond the boiling point. Before that, when evil simmers, the good is either too trusting, considerate, open-minded, comfortable, in denial or afraid to abate evil&#039;s flames while it&#039;s possible. Perhaps there&#039;s a name for that phenomenon, which is so recurrent throughout history.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Elyas and Justin,</p>
<p>It&#8217;s true that the Mullahs of Iran and their party are in the minority.  But given the Iranian mullahs&#8217; nuclear mission, their minority status seems irrelevant compared to the threat they pose to the world. Once they have Allah&#8217;s Bomb, it&#8217;s a whole new ball game for the entire planet. Whether or not their fundamentalist ideology is in the majority or the minority makes little difference if there is no credible threat to stop them &#8212; either internally within Persia or externally from the West.</p>
<p>The majority of Iranians are no more capable of mutilating people than the majority or Afghans are. Yet Abhaseen Barikzy&#8217;s suffering is emblematic of an international movement devised  to counter the West, such as it is. They draw potency from the silent majority &#8212; among Muslims and among secularists. </p>
<p>The more I read history, the more I realize that the great Bogeyman of history are silent majorities that fail to act upon their convictions. There may be sound reasons for silence and fear in the face of minority extremists; but nonetheless, those extremists have made lots of horrible history. Was all that horrible history written in spite of or because of the silent majorities?</p>
<p>Perhaps good can overcome evil only when evil gets beyond the boiling point. Before that, when evil simmers, the good is either too trusting, considerate, open-minded, comfortable, in denial or afraid to abate evil&#8217;s flames while it&#8217;s possible. Perhaps there&#8217;s a name for that phenomenon, which is so recurrent throughout history.</p>
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		<title>By: Elyas Bakhtiari</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2005/09/23/touchstone/comment-page-1/#comment-2421</link>
		<dc:creator>Elyas Bakhtiari</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Sep 2005 13:50:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=931#comment-2421</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;AllahÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s up there. Period. Get there, and donÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t worry about here. &lt;/i&gt;

That mindset has less influence than you think it does. Yes, radical Islamists are willing to die and are comforted by relgious beliefs, but the &quot;get there and don&#039;t worry about here&quot; attitude is not the driving force behind their war. It is simply a device the leaders use to send their soldiers off to die. Those in power still very much want to stay on Earth and enjoy the spoils of victory. This is still a war about power and Earthly gains for those at the top.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>AllahÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s up there. Period. Get there, and donÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t worry about here. </i></p>
<p>That mindset has less influence than you think it does. Yes, radical Islamists are willing to die and are comforted by relgious beliefs, but the &#8220;get there and don&#8217;t worry about here&#8221; attitude is not the driving force behind their war. It is simply a device the leaders use to send their soldiers off to die. Those in power still very much want to stay on Earth and enjoy the spoils of victory. This is still a war about power and Earthly gains for those at the top.</p>
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		<title>By: Justin Gardner</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2005/09/23/touchstone/comment-page-1/#comment-2415</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin Gardner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Sep 2005 08:15:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=931#comment-2415</guid>
		<description>An extremely heartwrenching story, but one passage in particular struck me.&lt;blockquote&gt;While Iranian Muslims and the Taliban are opposed to each other, they share a central core belief: AllahÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s up there. Period. Get there, and donÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t worry about here. Just get through your two seconds on Earth and score points with Allah by killing his enemies.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Perhaps you mean the Iranians in power. It has been well documented that many Iranians decry the Shahs&#039; rule, but they simply don&#039;t have the numbers to overthrow them, nor do they have the will.

Simply put, even though Iran is in the Axis of Evil, I suspect that only the minority feel the way you illustrated here.

Thoughts?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An extremely heartwrenching story, but one passage in particular struck me.<br />
<blockquote>While Iranian Muslims and the Taliban are opposed to each other, they share a central core belief: AllahÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s up there. Period. Get there, and donÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t worry about here. Just get through your two seconds on Earth and score points with Allah by killing his enemies.</p></blockquote>
<p>Perhaps you mean the Iranians in power. It has been well documented that many Iranians decry the Shahs&#8217; rule, but they simply don&#8217;t have the numbers to overthrow them, nor do they have the will.</p>
<p>Simply put, even though Iran is in the Axis of Evil, I suspect that only the minority feel the way you illustrated here.</p>
<p>Thoughts?</p>
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