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	<title>Comments on: LEO Comes to Donklephant</title>
	<atom:link href="http://donklephant.com/2005/10/03/leo-comes-to-donklephant/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://donklephant.com/2005/10/03/leo-comes-to-donklephant/</link>
	<description>Big Teeth. Huge Ass. Surprisingly Reasonable.</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 03:49:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Justin Gardner</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2005/10/03/leo-comes-to-donklephant/comment-page-1/#comment-2725</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin Gardner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Oct 2005 04:34:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=985#comment-2725</guid>
		<description>Sorry ford. Let me look into that and get back to you. Hectic times around the homestead and &lt;a href="http://www.kozoru.com" rel="nofollow"&gt;work&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry ford. Let me look into that and get back to you. Hectic times around the homestead and <a href="http://www.kozoru.com" rel="nofollow">work</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jonathon York</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2005/10/03/leo-comes-to-donklephant/comment-page-1/#comment-2721</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathon York</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Oct 2005 22:28:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=985#comment-2721</guid>
		<description>If it's a speech I'm measuring stated ideological indicators.  There's always a measure of difficulty with measuring phenomena of this sort, mainly because we cannot see directly into the human psyche.  With such studies there are three different kinds of sources:  What people do, what they say, and what they think.  The first is readily observable.  The second is observable but inspires doubt, and the third is nearly inscrutable...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If it&#8217;s a speech I&#8217;m measuring stated ideological indicators.  There&#8217;s always a measure of difficulty with measuring phenomena of this sort, mainly because we cannot see directly into the human psyche.  With such studies there are three different kinds of sources:  What people do, what they say, and what they think.  The first is readily observable.  The second is observable but inspires doubt, and the third is nearly inscrutable&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: ford4x4</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2005/10/03/leo-comes-to-donklephant/comment-page-1/#comment-2718</link>
		<dc:creator>ford4x4</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Oct 2005 21:05:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=985#comment-2718</guid>
		<description>grrrr...  any chance we'll ever be able to edit our comments (or at least
preview), like we can on some other blogs?   I hate when I make 
grammatical errors!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>grrrr&#8230;  any chance we&#8217;ll ever be able to edit our comments (or at least<br />
preview), like we can on some other blogs?   I hate when I make<br />
grammatical errors!</p>
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		<title>By: ford4x4</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2005/10/03/leo-comes-to-donklephant/comment-page-1/#comment-2716</link>
		<dc:creator>ford4x4</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Oct 2005 21:02:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=985#comment-2716</guid>
		<description>Justin,  stranger things have happened.  Maybe Bush really can read on his own! :)

Jonathon,
It's a good thing that it's your job to keep up with this kind of stuff, otherwise, I'd say you have &lt;i&gt;far&lt;/i&gt; too much time on your hands!
I honestly feel that most politicians just say what they think their constituents want to hear,  not what they truly feel.  So what is it that
your really measuring?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Justin,  stranger things have happened.  Maybe Bush really can read on his own! :)</p>
<p>Jonathon,<br />
It&#8217;s a good thing that it&#8217;s your job to keep up with this kind of stuff, otherwise, I&#8217;d say you have <i>far</i> too much time on your hands!<br />
I honestly feel that most politicians just say what they think their constituents want to hear,  not what they truly feel.  So what is it that<br />
your really measuring?</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathon York</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2005/10/03/leo-comes-to-donklephant/comment-page-1/#comment-2714</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathon York</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Oct 2005 20:21:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=985#comment-2714</guid>
		<description>Hi ford, 
That is a hazard with any method of observation, but the difficulty for the subject under scrutiny then comes when he must put his actions where his mouth is.  One application of this model involves comparing rhetoric with language of legislation or of executive orders.  If the subject appears to betray his own stated principles with his actions, he'll lose support.  
 
Also, as far as measuring concept frequencies go, who's to say that they're not doing this already?  A while back I tracked Bush's highlighted speeches from whitehouse.gov and found that his 2nd Inaugural Address had a signature so different from that of his campaign that it could be attributed either to a calculated move to preserve the Reagan Coalition or to a totally new speechwriter generally unfamiliar with the president's agenda.  He spent the next several months trying to bring those two ends together.  Here's the link:
http://theleotest.typepad.com/the_leo_test/2005/07/george_w_bush_a.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi ford,<br />
That is a hazard with any method of observation, but the difficulty for the subject under scrutiny then comes when he must put his actions where his mouth is.  One application of this model involves comparing rhetoric with language of legislation or of executive orders.  If the subject appears to betray his own stated principles with his actions, he&#8217;ll lose support.  </p>
<p>Also, as far as measuring concept frequencies go, who&#8217;s to say that they&#8217;re not doing this already?  A while back I tracked Bush&#8217;s highlighted speeches from whitehouse.gov and found that his 2nd Inaugural Address had a signature so different from that of his campaign that it could be attributed either to a calculated move to preserve the Reagan Coalition or to a totally new speechwriter generally unfamiliar with the president&#8217;s agenda.  He spent the next several months trying to bring those two ends together.  Here&#8217;s the link:<br />
<a href="http://theleotest.typepad.com/the_leo_test/2005/07/george_w_bush_a.html" rel="nofollow">http://theleotest.typepad.com/the_leo_test/2005/07/george_w_bush_a.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Justin Gardner</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2005/10/03/leo-comes-to-donklephant/comment-page-1/#comment-2713</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin Gardner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Oct 2005 19:18:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=985#comment-2713</guid>
		<description>Hehe, well, I'm glad you think we have so much pull in the White House ford.

Simply put, testing methods evolve along with the subjects they test. But even if he does start using certain words more, the test will show trends over time, and therefore will be able to create a broader picture and possibly show a political evolution in its own right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hehe, well, I&#8217;m glad you think we have so much pull in the White House ford.</p>
<p>Simply put, testing methods evolve along with the subjects they test. But even if he does start using certain words more, the test will show trends over time, and therefore will be able to create a broader picture and possibly show a political evolution in its own right.</p>
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		<title>By: ford4x4</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2005/10/03/leo-comes-to-donklephant/comment-page-1/#comment-2707</link>
		<dc:creator>ford4x4</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Oct 2005 16:25:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=985#comment-2707</guid>
		<description>If President Bush starts reading this blog, and learns of this "test",
then the test goes straight to hell,  because he'll learn what word(s)
he's not saying often enough.   Problem is,  you won't know if/when that has happened.  Now that you've published results,  you can no longer measure in the same manner.  The act of observation will now skew the test.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If President Bush starts reading this blog, and learns of this &#8220;test&#8221;,<br />
then the test goes straight to hell,  because he&#8217;ll learn what word(s)<br />
he&#8217;s not saying often enough.   Problem is,  you won&#8217;t know if/when that has happened.  Now that you&#8217;ve published results,  you can no longer measure in the same manner.  The act of observation will now skew the test.</p>
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		<title>By: michael reynolds</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2005/10/03/leo-comes-to-donklephant/comment-page-1/#comment-2690</link>
		<dc:creator>michael reynolds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Oct 2005 01:09:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=985#comment-2690</guid>
		<description>Justin:

I was just hazing the new kid.  

I'm always drawn to metrics.  Don't always believe them, don't always believe particular interpretations of them, but I enjoy them just the same.  There's never anything wrong with pulling out your scalpel and slicing the world up from a new direction, see what's in there.

Jonathon, you've hooked up with a really great site.  Welcome to the exciting, entertaining and profitable (ah hah hah hah, oh, godd--n, that's always funny,) world of blogging.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Justin:</p>
<p>I was just hazing the new kid.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m always drawn to metrics.  Don&#8217;t always believe them, don&#8217;t always believe particular interpretations of them, but I enjoy them just the same.  There&#8217;s never anything wrong with pulling out your scalpel and slicing the world up from a new direction, see what&#8217;s in there.</p>
<p>Jonathon, you&#8217;ve hooked up with a really great site.  Welcome to the exciting, entertaining and profitable (ah hah hah hah, oh, godd&#8211;n, that&#8217;s always funny,) world of blogging.</p>
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		<title>By: Justin Gardner</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2005/10/03/leo-comes-to-donklephant/comment-page-1/#comment-2687</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin Gardner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Oct 2005 22:57:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=985#comment-2687</guid>
		<description>Let's give it a little time Michael and then we can call the methodology into question. Remember, ever methodology that has changed things has essentially been roundly ignored at first and then widely accepted later on.

I'm not saying this describes Jonathon's, but it very well may. I'll willing to take a chance and find out over a year's time, which is how long he's agreed to blog with us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s give it a little time Michael and then we can call the methodology into question. Remember, ever methodology that has changed things has essentially been roundly ignored at first and then widely accepted later on.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not saying this describes Jonathon&#8217;s, but it very well may. I&#8217;ll willing to take a chance and find out over a year&#8217;s time, which is how long he&#8217;s agreed to blog with us.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathon York</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2005/10/03/leo-comes-to-donklephant/comment-page-1/#comment-2686</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathon York</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Oct 2005 22:27:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=985#comment-2686</guid>
		<description>Michael, 
First off I appreciate your objection, and understand your skepticism.  I am generally suspicious of them as well.  Consider the objection below:

http://theleotest.typepad.com/the_leo_test/2005/08/on_judicial_dec.html

The analysis does not simply rely on the repetition of just one word per principle.  Part of the difficulty in developing a reasonable test table is that one must find concepts closely identified with the principle in question, and weed out those terms that are either ambiguous or ambivalent.  

On the lighter side of your objection, since a word like "godd--n" is used so frequently beyond the context of religious discussion, it does not qualify as an indicator of a religious or anti-religious position.  ;)

Similiarly, some words or phrases one would think would otherwise qualify under one or another of the principles measured actually cannot, either because they stretch across more than one principle or because they are skewed through grammatical or usage conventions.

As far as negative references are concerned, there is indeed a difficulty, but it appears as if some ideological positions are simply negatively defined.  Hence, some people who think they are either 'liberal' or 'libertarian' may actually be 'anti-conservatives' instead.   I submit that there is a marked difference.

At this stage distinguishing a preference or an anti-preference still requires manual text analysis.  This can serve as a means of error-correction.
Also, measurements of an egalitarian, establishmentarian, or libertarian position are not merely a matter of counting only references to one principle.  Statements of moderate ideological preferences of any stripe will--indeed must-- contain a variety of indicators to liberty, equality, and order.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael,<br />
First off I appreciate your objection, and understand your skepticism.  I am generally suspicious of them as well.  Consider the objection below:</p>
<p><a href="http://theleotest.typepad.com/the_leo_test/2005/08/on_judicial_dec.html" rel="nofollow">http://theleotest.typepad.com/the_leo_test/2005/08/on_judicial_dec.html</a></p>
<p>The analysis does not simply rely on the repetition of just one word per principle.  Part of the difficulty in developing a reasonable test table is that one must find concepts closely identified with the principle in question, and weed out those terms that are either ambiguous or ambivalent.  </p>
<p>On the lighter side of your objection, since a word like &#8220;godd&#8211;n&#8221; is used so frequently beyond the context of religious discussion, it does not qualify as an indicator of a religious or anti-religious position.  ;)</p>
<p>Similiarly, some words or phrases one would think would otherwise qualify under one or another of the principles measured actually cannot, either because they stretch across more than one principle or because they are skewed through grammatical or usage conventions.</p>
<p>As far as negative references are concerned, there is indeed a difficulty, but it appears as if some ideological positions are simply negatively defined.  Hence, some people who think they are either &#8216;liberal&#8217; or &#8216;libertarian&#8217; may actually be &#8216;anti-conservatives&#8217; instead.   I submit that there is a marked difference.</p>
<p>At this stage distinguishing a preference or an anti-preference still requires manual text analysis.  This can serve as a means of error-correction.<br />
Also, measurements of an egalitarian, establishmentarian, or libertarian position are not merely a matter of counting only references to one principle.  Statements of moderate ideological preferences of any stripe will&#8211;indeed must&#8211; contain a variety of indicators to liberty, equality, and order.</p>
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		<title>By: michael reynolds</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2005/10/03/leo-comes-to-donklephant/comment-page-1/#comment-2683</link>
		<dc:creator>michael reynolds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Oct 2005 21:41:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=985#comment-2683</guid>
		<description>I'm sorry, but I am suspicious of analyses that judge content by word repetition.  I tend to use the word "godd---n" on a fairly frequent basis despite that I believe in neither God nor hell. 

On a somewhat more serious note, I am very devoted to the concept of liberty but almost never use the word.  I just don't like the word much.  In fact, writing in support of liberty I'm more likely to attack those I see as opponents of same and consequently any screed of mine on the topic is likely to use the words "religion," "religious," "right wing,"  and some other words I know you guys don't approve of on a PG rated site.  I wonder if the preference of some writers for defending a position by attacking its opposite won't cause problems in your model.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m sorry, but I am suspicious of analyses that judge content by word repetition.  I tend to use the word &#8220;godd&#8212;n&#8221; on a fairly frequent basis despite that I believe in neither God nor hell. </p>
<p>On a somewhat more serious note, I am very devoted to the concept of liberty but almost never use the word.  I just don&#8217;t like the word much.  In fact, writing in support of liberty I&#8217;m more likely to attack those I see as opponents of same and consequently any screed of mine on the topic is likely to use the words &#8220;religion,&#8221; &#8220;religious,&#8221; &#8220;right wing,&#8221;  and some other words I know you guys don&#8217;t approve of on a PG rated site.  I wonder if the preference of some writers for defending a position by attacking its opposite won&#8217;t cause problems in your model.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathon York</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2005/10/03/leo-comes-to-donklephant/comment-page-1/#comment-2680</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathon York</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Oct 2005 20:47:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=985#comment-2680</guid>
		<description>He' Montag; thanks for the welcome.  I originally did hand-counts, and still have to do that for hard copy.  Thanks to a colleague I have a standalone executable that serves as proof-of-concept.  It counts target text from a predefined dictionary file.  It's a command-line affair, it only reads text files, and the dictionary is limited to single words, but there are plans for new development.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He&#8217; Montag; thanks for the welcome.  I originally did hand-counts, and still have to do that for hard copy.  Thanks to a colleague I have a standalone executable that serves as proof-of-concept.  It counts target text from a predefined dictionary file.  It&#8217;s a command-line affair, it only reads text files, and the dictionary is limited to single words, but there are plans for new development.</p>
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		<title>By: Montag</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2005/10/03/leo-comes-to-donklephant/comment-page-1/#comment-2676</link>
		<dc:creator>Montag</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Oct 2005 17:51:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=985#comment-2676</guid>
		<description>Welcome aboard, Jonathon.  (I must resist the urge to call you "Leo".)  I think this will be interesting.  

Out of curiosity:  Do you have an automated program that you feed text into to count the words in your dictionaries?  Or do you do so manually?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Welcome aboard, Jonathon.  (I must resist the urge to call you &#8220;Leo&#8221;.)  I think this will be interesting.  </p>
<p>Out of curiosity:  Do you have an automated program that you feed text into to count the words in your dictionaries?  Or do you do so manually?</p>
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