Comments on: Whither the Dems? http://donklephant.com/2005/10/27/whither-the-dems/ Big Teeth. Huge Ass. Surprisingly Reasonable. Fri, 09 Jan 2009 12:58:36 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7 hourly 1 By: Kelly http://donklephant.com/2005/10/27/whither-the-dems/comment-page-1/#comment-3210 Kelly Fri, 28 Oct 2005 19:02:21 +0000 http://donklephant.com/?p=1197#comment-3210 I don't think it's perceptive at all, of the bigger-than-party picture. I think it's as hallucinatory and delusional as anything Sirota (rightly) derides. The central hallucination is that while doing nothing won't really work, doing more of the same will. The party's decline dates precisely from the time that progressive/peace ideology became a major force, from 1968 onwards. The delusions are that focusing on economic insecurity and ignoring national security, or championing social issues supported by 30% minorities, will somehow lead to electoral success without reframing or appealing-to-moderates candidates. Sirota seems to think this is a potential Goldwater moment for the Democrats, to go off into the wilderness for 20 years and build a solid, consistent ideology before returning in triumph; but the landscape is fundamentally different. This isn't a moment of entrenched overreach like LBJ's guns-and-butter liberalism, but the possible establishment of a conservative majority. If the Dems go away for a generation to craft their ideology, there may not be an opening when they come back. Politics abhors a vacuum, too. I don’t think it’s perceptive at all, of the bigger-than-party picture. I think it’s as hallucinatory and delusional as anything Sirota (rightly) derides. The central hallucination is that while doing nothing won’t really work, doing more of the same will. The party’s decline dates precisely from the time that progressive/peace ideology became a major force, from 1968 onwards. The delusions are that focusing on economic insecurity and ignoring national security, or championing social issues supported by 30% minorities, will somehow lead to electoral success without reframing or appealing-to-moderates candidates.
Sirota seems to think this is a potential Goldwater moment for the Democrats, to go off into the wilderness for 20 years and build a solid, consistent ideology before returning in triumph; but the landscape is fundamentally different. This isn’t a moment of entrenched overreach like LBJ’s guns-and-butter liberalism, but the possible establishment of a conservative majority. If the Dems go away for a generation to craft their ideology, there may not be an opening when they come back. Politics abhors a vacuum, too.

]]> By: Joshua http://donklephant.com/2005/10/27/whither-the-dems/comment-page-1/#comment-3181 Joshua Fri, 28 Oct 2005 14:32:16 +0000 http://donklephant.com/?p=1197#comment-3181 In last year's presidential campaign it was often put forth in many quarters, but especially on conservative blogs, that if John Kerry were to win he would have become the weakest president the U.S. ever had, for this very reason. Obviously conservatives wouldn't have rallied behind Kerry, but neither would most liberals have any reason to do so because they would have already gotten all they really wanted from him - the defeat of George W. Bush. It's hard to be an effective president when even those who voted you into office are content to let you twist in the wind. In last year’s presidential campaign it was often put forth in many quarters, but especially on conservative blogs, that if John Kerry were to win he would have become the weakest president the U.S. ever had, for this very reason. Obviously conservatives wouldn’t have rallied behind Kerry, but neither would most liberals have any reason to do so because they would have already gotten all they really wanted from him - the defeat of George W. Bush. It’s hard to be an effective president when even those who voted you into office are content to let you twist in the wind.

]]> By: kreiz http://donklephant.com/2005/10/27/whither-the-dems/comment-page-1/#comment-3177 kreiz Fri, 28 Oct 2005 11:59:55 +0000 http://donklephant.com/?p=1197#comment-3177 "My hope is that someday we’ll have a political party, it could be the Democrats, whose ideology is that liberty is a seamless garment applicable at home and abroad." I understand the sentiment. I shared this hope for a long time. But I've long since abandoned the notion that the Dems will again embrace the internationalism, boldness and strength of Truman-JFK-LBJ. McGovern's reluctance toward most things military prevailed in '72- and it still does. I won't put words in his mouth- but I suspect that Callimachus shares this qualm with his "old party". My question to him is- 'do you have a new one?' I don't- and I hate not participating. “My hope is that someday we’ll have a political party, it could be the Democrats, whose ideology is that liberty is a seamless garment applicable at home and abroad.” I understand the sentiment. I shared this hope for a long time. But I’ve long since abandoned the notion that the Dems will again embrace the internationalism, boldness and strength of Truman-JFK-LBJ. McGovern’s reluctance toward most things military prevailed in ‘72- and it still does.

I won’t put words in his mouth- but I suspect that Callimachus shares this qualm with his “old party”. My question to him is- ‘do you have a new one?’ I don’t- and I hate not participating.

]]> By: jimbo http://donklephant.com/2005/10/27/whither-the-dems/comment-page-1/#comment-3175 jimbo Fri, 28 Oct 2005 08:07:28 +0000 http://donklephant.com/?p=1197#comment-3175 Thanks for the link. It is a very perceptive article. What would liberal pundits have said if Clinton had nominated a crony to SCOTUS? How much support would that crony have received in a Democratic Senate? Make no mistake about it, though, the GOP base is fundamentally split between religious conservatives whose zeal for government regulation of personal life could easily turn into government regulation of everything and old-fashioned liberals who believe that government's role in everything but national security should be limited as much as possible. In 2004 Democrats realized that although the public supports them, wrongly IMHO, on domestic and trade issues, the public is truly frightened by elements in the Democrats' base who think "Amerikkka" had it coming on 9/11. That explains the unexamined love for candidates with military experience. My hope is that someday we'll have a political party, it could be the Democrats, whose ideology is that liberty is a seamless garment applicable at home and abroad. Thanks for the link. It is a very perceptive article. What would liberal pundits have said if Clinton had nominated a crony to SCOTUS? How much support would that crony have received in a Democratic Senate? Make no mistake about it, though, the GOP base is fundamentally split between religious conservatives whose zeal for government regulation of personal life could easily turn into government regulation of everything and old-fashioned liberals who believe that government’s role in everything but national security should be limited as much as possible. In 2004 Democrats realized that although the public supports them, wrongly IMHO, on domestic and trade issues, the public is truly frightened by elements in the Democrats’ base who think “Amerikkka” had it coming on 9/11. That explains the unexamined love for candidates with military experience. My hope is that someday we’ll have a political party, it could be the Democrats, whose ideology is that liberty is a seamless garment applicable at home and abroad.

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