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	<title>Comments on: Much Ado About Alito or Abortion?</title>
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	<link>http://donklephant.com/2005/11/01/much-ado-about-alito-or-abortion/</link>
	<description>Big Teeth. Huge Ass. Surprisingly Reasonable.</description>
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		<title>By: john</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2005/11/01/much-ado-about-alito-or-abortion/comment-page-1/#comment-3350</link>
		<dc:creator>john</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Nov 2005 17:42:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=1233#comment-3350</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m really doubting that Roe will get overturned directly.  The Righties might widdle away at it through supreme court challenges, but Striking it down all together will not happen.  Sorry righties.  What you will see is that states will pass laws restricting access to abortions and limitations to the surgery procedures.  Their not going to take such a polarizing national constitution issue and drop it into the hands of the states.  If that were to happen, the fight would end up right back at the supreme court numerous times, and it will again be a federal issue to contend with over time.

You see Righties think that if they can turn this into a states issue and prevent this surgery from occuring in a few states they can eventually get the muster to outlaw it in all states.  It won&#039;t happen in the vast majority of the Blue states.  Michael Reynolds hit the scenario right on the head, but It won&#039;t go back to the states to decide, and ultimately what will happen will be a disappointment to the Righties.  In the end they will not be able to completely outlaw the surgery altogether regardless of whether it does get sent down to the states.

So a helpful suggestion to the Righties.  Get the fetus right down to the fertilized egg to be declared a citizen of the united states with all the protections granted by the constitution right off the bat and save all of us the headache of going the long way around.  Do you think that those who favor a womans right to chose don&#039;t understand the method to your madness?  Step one: get it sent back down to the states.  Step two: get the practice outlawed in the solid red states.  Step three:  force other states to follow by preventing people in red states from slipping over to blue states.  Step four:  get some red states to declare fetuses as people with full rights in their constitutions.  Step five:  get this as a constitutional amendment to the US constitution.  Cut to the chase already.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m really doubting that Roe will get overturned directly.  The Righties might widdle away at it through supreme court challenges, but Striking it down all together will not happen.  Sorry righties.  What you will see is that states will pass laws restricting access to abortions and limitations to the surgery procedures.  Their not going to take such a polarizing national constitution issue and drop it into the hands of the states.  If that were to happen, the fight would end up right back at the supreme court numerous times, and it will again be a federal issue to contend with over time.</p>
<p>You see Righties think that if they can turn this into a states issue and prevent this surgery from occuring in a few states they can eventually get the muster to outlaw it in all states.  It won&#8217;t happen in the vast majority of the Blue states.  Michael Reynolds hit the scenario right on the head, but It won&#8217;t go back to the states to decide, and ultimately what will happen will be a disappointment to the Righties.  In the end they will not be able to completely outlaw the surgery altogether regardless of whether it does get sent down to the states.</p>
<p>So a helpful suggestion to the Righties.  Get the fetus right down to the fertilized egg to be declared a citizen of the united states with all the protections granted by the constitution right off the bat and save all of us the headache of going the long way around.  Do you think that those who favor a womans right to chose don&#8217;t understand the method to your madness?  Step one: get it sent back down to the states.  Step two: get the practice outlawed in the solid red states.  Step three:  force other states to follow by preventing people in red states from slipping over to blue states.  Step four:  get some red states to declare fetuses as people with full rights in their constitutions.  Step five:  get this as a constitutional amendment to the US constitution.  Cut to the chase already.</p>
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		<title>By: michael reynolds</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2005/11/01/much-ado-about-alito-or-abortion/comment-page-1/#comment-3345</link>
		<dc:creator>michael reynolds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Nov 2005 15:08:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=1233#comment-3345</guid>
		<description>I think perhaps a handful of states would flatly outlaw it:  Utah, Mississippi, Alabama, South Carolina, Kansas.  Other states would enact so many restrictions it would be close to illegal:  Texas, Oklahoma, Nebraska, the Dakotas, Idaho, North Carolina, Georgia etc...  Pennsylvania, Michigan and Florida would certainly place restrictions on it.  The west coast and New England would stay in Roe territory.  

You would have a patchwork all across the country.  You&#039;d end up with a situation where the identical act would result in life imprisonment in one state, and be entirely legal a mile away in another state.  Strongly anti-choice states would attempt to attach penalties to residents who sought abortion in other states, in other words, to force California to enforce a South Carolina law.  Anyone recall the last time we had a situation like this?  Does the name Dred Scott ring a bell?

It&#039;s not an easy or painless alternative.  I think it&#039;s inevitable, and I think it helps the Dems by giving them a motive to organize in the states, but the abortion issue will move down the line into state legislative races and gubernatorial races, infecting those levels of government with the same debilitating, polarizing stain.

There&#039;s nothing good about this.  But it&#039;s the fight that&#039;s coming, and pro-choice people need to be organizing to fight it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think perhaps a handful of states would flatly outlaw it:  Utah, Mississippi, Alabama, South Carolina, Kansas.  Other states would enact so many restrictions it would be close to illegal:  Texas, Oklahoma, Nebraska, the Dakotas, Idaho, North Carolina, Georgia etc&#8230;  Pennsylvania, Michigan and Florida would certainly place restrictions on it.  The west coast and New England would stay in Roe territory.  </p>
<p>You would have a patchwork all across the country.  You&#8217;d end up with a situation where the identical act would result in life imprisonment in one state, and be entirely legal a mile away in another state.  Strongly anti-choice states would attempt to attach penalties to residents who sought abortion in other states, in other words, to force California to enforce a South Carolina law.  Anyone recall the last time we had a situation like this?  Does the name Dred Scott ring a bell?</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not an easy or painless alternative.  I think it&#8217;s inevitable, and I think it helps the Dems by giving them a motive to organize in the states, but the abortion issue will move down the line into state legislative races and gubernatorial races, infecting those levels of government with the same debilitating, polarizing stain.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s nothing good about this.  But it&#8217;s the fight that&#8217;s coming, and pro-choice people need to be organizing to fight it.</p>
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		<title>By: Denise Best</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2005/11/01/much-ado-about-alito-or-abortion/comment-page-1/#comment-3326</link>
		<dc:creator>Denise Best</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Nov 2005 20:39:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=1233#comment-3326</guid>
		<description>Agreed, ultimately this issue needs to be decided at the State level.

Certainly would take a good amount of controversy from the selection process and allow for a better focus upon matters of constitutional law.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreed, ultimately this issue needs to be decided at the State level.</p>
<p>Certainly would take a good amount of controversy from the selection process and allow for a better focus upon matters of constitutional law.</p>
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		<title>By: debsay</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2005/11/01/much-ado-about-alito-or-abortion/comment-page-1/#comment-3322</link>
		<dc:creator>debsay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Nov 2005 19:30:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=1233#comment-3322</guid>
		<description>The only thing that a reversal of the Roe decision would do is to put it back into the States hands.... Personally I would be surprised if any state enacted a ban on it, they might have a few more restrictions but nobody would ban it.  

With this issue removed, it would be a lot easier to get into an honest debate about ideas instead of rhetoric.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The only thing that a reversal of the Roe decision would do is to put it back into the States hands&#8230;. Personally I would be surprised if any state enacted a ban on it, they might have a few more restrictions but nobody would ban it.  </p>
<p>With this issue removed, it would be a lot easier to get into an honest debate about ideas instead of rhetoric.</p>
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		<title>By: michael reynolds</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2005/11/01/much-ado-about-alito-or-abortion/comment-page-1/#comment-3313</link>
		<dc:creator>michael reynolds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Nov 2005 17:36:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=1233#comment-3313</guid>
		<description>The Dems start with 45, they need 41 to pull off a filibuster, but if you subtract the Democratic members of the Gang of 14 you&#039;re looking at 38 Dems.  So, hurdle number one is that the Dems have to turn out most of their &quot;gang members.&quot;  

If by some miracle the Dems do pull off a filibuster they&#039;ll need 51 votes to avoid the &quot;nuclear option.&quot;  Give them all 45 of their own people on that vote, they&#039;ll need 6 from across the aisle.  They&#039;re in a trap: if Dems break the Gang to start a filibuster they won&#039;t have the Gang to defend them from the nuke.

Potential GOP&#039;ers who could vote to either knock Alito out in a straight up or down, or sustain a veto, are Lincoln Chaffee of RI (tight reelection race, heavily Dem state), the Chill Sisters, Snowe and Collins of Maine, (who are always on the list but never come across) and a couple of other even more unlikely prospects.

It&#039;s hard to see how the Dems put together a win on this.  But it&#039;s good to remember that winning is only part of the game for NARAL, PFAW, etc... They also fight this fight to generate contributions, buck up morale in their troops, maintain their influence with the party and generally make themselves feel important despite the fact that they&#039;ve demonstrated massive incompetence in the abortion battle.  

Roe won&#039;t last out the decade, Dems need to let it go and take their fight to the states.  Chances that these Beltway creatures will head for Nebraska and North Carolina and Idaho?  Slim and none.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Dems start with 45, they need 41 to pull off a filibuster, but if you subtract the Democratic members of the Gang of 14 you&#8217;re looking at 38 Dems.  So, hurdle number one is that the Dems have to turn out most of their &#8220;gang members.&#8221;  </p>
<p>If by some miracle the Dems do pull off a filibuster they&#8217;ll need 51 votes to avoid the &#8220;nuclear option.&#8221;  Give them all 45 of their own people on that vote, they&#8217;ll need 6 from across the aisle.  They&#8217;re in a trap: if Dems break the Gang to start a filibuster they won&#8217;t have the Gang to defend them from the nuke.</p>
<p>Potential GOP&#8217;ers who could vote to either knock Alito out in a straight up or down, or sustain a veto, are Lincoln Chaffee of RI (tight reelection race, heavily Dem state), the Chill Sisters, Snowe and Collins of Maine, (who are always on the list but never come across) and a couple of other even more unlikely prospects.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s hard to see how the Dems put together a win on this.  But it&#8217;s good to remember that winning is only part of the game for NARAL, PFAW, etc&#8230; They also fight this fight to generate contributions, buck up morale in their troops, maintain their influence with the party and generally make themselves feel important despite the fact that they&#8217;ve demonstrated massive incompetence in the abortion battle.  </p>
<p>Roe won&#8217;t last out the decade, Dems need to let it go and take their fight to the states.  Chances that these Beltway creatures will head for Nebraska and North Carolina and Idaho?  Slim and none.</p>
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