I would much rather they be treated this way than to have their heads sawed off with a dull knife while they are bound and blindfolded!!!!!!!

Spies are not protectd by the GC. Are you saying that a soldier captured by a non-uniformed agent of a nation should no longer have the rights accorded to them by the GC?
Um, I think we’re in complete agreement here. The GC doesn’t cover spies, thereby making spies fair game to shoot on sight. Soldiers in uniform deserve fair treatment under the GC no matter who captures them.

My comment on the GC was simply to point out that spies have always done and been expected to do nefarious things, and therefore are not worthy of protection under international law. Espionage organizations are by definition engaged in inherently immoral conduct. They cannot function effectively otherwise.

Yeah, I would say that some of these things are torture, the electrical stuff, the rape stuff would definately be torture.

The other stuff would be more of a psychological effect designed to keep the inmates back on their heels and unsure of what is going on around them… it accomplishes several things, 1) it helps in making it harder for them to focus on attacks on the personnel and escape plans, 2) they are never so sure of themselves that they can just laugh off any questioning.

I do have a problem with the 27 confirmed or suspected homocides, especially if they weren’t inmate vs. inmate but we in fact killed them. I don’t know the circumstances or the facts surrounding these instances so I can’t really comment on them.

As to the comments about this being commonplace, this incident was under investigation by the military before it was even brought to our attention by the media. So to say that this was commonplace ‘might’ be stretching it a little bit. In this war, our soldiers have gone out of their way to reduce the possibility of casualties to innocent bystanders and we have had more deaths because of this policy… to then imply that we are routinely ‘torturing’ prisoners is a little over the top.

It will be interesting to see what the investigation of the “secret prisons” turns up.

What Socks mentions are all true, and there is another factor, there is a whole stack of images and photos that the public has yet to see, and the administration and the millitary are withholding as the might be too inflammatory for public consumption. Still not torture? And I know you might say that we don’t “KNOW” what these images are, but I highly doubt they let the ones that got out to circulate and are holding the ones where they forced inmates to have tea parties. What are in these images they do not want out are much worse acts and faces of individuals that are denying that they gave the OK for these actions. What we need is one person in this administration to give a full whole hearted “Jack Nicholas- YOU WANT THE TRUTH…. YOU CAN”T HANDLE THE TRUTH!” moment, but they just don’t have the Balls to admit that they OK’d these acts. Why are they lacking the Balls? Because they know that most Americans would not want these acts to be done in their name. You appreciation of this practice aside. I think pacifists are pussies, but would I force and draft someone to fight in a war that they do not believe in? NO, because I would not want that person fighting beside me. There are plenty of non combat roles that need to be performed in the millitary.

“Righties like to chime up in the hypotheticals that everything should be on the table, when actual application is at hand they either clam up or play down (Abu Ghraib). Why is it not possible for a Rightie to say anything direct in to the point other than “Cut Taxesâ€Â?. ”

I’m a conservative and I’ll say it… I don’t like to think about our side taking part in ‘torture’ and I guess my definition of torture is not going to be the same as yours… but I’ll also be the first to admit that I am thankful that we have people that are willing to do whatever is necessary to keep me and my children safe.

Just at there are pacifists that would never take part in a war, or handle police duties, etc., there are others that are willing to step up and handle that for them. It’s these people that enable the pacifists to continue living the life that they enjoy.

When the photos came out about Abu Ghraib and most of it was embarrassing these guys by making them walk around naked, smearing fake menstral blood, wrapping them in an Isreali flag, putting panties on their heads, etc., turning up music, leaving lights on all night….. I’m sorry that doesn’t measure up to ‘torture’ for me, show me the burn marks, ripped out finger nails, dislocated joints, lash marks, cuts, broken bones, etc… that is ‘torture’. This of course is just my own opinion, but there are lots of opinions besides just ours, and yours isn’t any better or worse than mine.

I’m glad that we have brave and fit soldiers that are willing to put themselves at risk for us, just as I’m thankful that we have police officers, firefighters, etc. I’m just as thankful that we have a CIA that works to keep us safe. Keep in mind that everytime that the CIA is curtailed by government that makes their intelligence that much harder to obtain and verify… if you want accurate intelligence you have to have a CIA that is allowed to operate in an unpleasant manner… put too many limitations on them and you get more of the same possible ‘bad’ intelligence that led to the Iraq war.

Spies are not protectd by the GC. Are you saying that a soldier captured by a non-uniformed agent of a nation should no longer have the rights accorded to them by the GC?

I’m all for the US military coming clean about its interrogation practices, but the CIA? There’s a reason the Geneva Convention doesn’t cover spies.

There are leaks from everybody, all the time, and how often is there an investigation?