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	<title>Comments on: If We Don&#8217;t Torture, Why Did We Hide It?</title>
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	<link>http://donklephant.com/2005/11/13/if-we-dont-torture-why-did-we-hide-it/</link>
	<description>Big Teeth. Huge Ass. Surprisingly Reasonable.</description>
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		<title>By: Justin Gardner</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2005/11/13/if-we-dont-torture-why-did-we-hide-it/comment-page-1/#comment-3712</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin Gardner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Nov 2005 14:37:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2005/11/13/if-we-dont-torture-why-did-we-hide-it/#comment-3712</guid>
		<description>I think my point is that torture is going to prolong this war rather than shorten it. I truly believe that this is going to be a war about ideas. Sure, we&#039;re going to have to stop terrorists threats too, but in the long run terrorism will die out and become a nuisance simply because nobody wants to take part in something that is so obviously wrong. However, if we&#039;re torturing people, somehow terrorism seems more justified to Muslim extremists.

And I too agree that Bush is duty bound to protect us, but prosecuting these people and sending them away is doing just that. Remember, we&#039;ve let people out of Guantanamo after two or three years who had NO connections to Al Qaeda. They were just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Innocents are getting caught in the cross-logic here and that&#039;s significant because that&#039;s what happens when you have a backwards policy like indefinite detention. These people were never charged with a crime, and yet they&#039;ve lost a few years of their life. And you can bet the US isn&#039;t compensating them for their time. Guilty until proven guilty in Guantanamo. Well, it&#039;s ridiculous for a democratic country like the United States using such Orwellian tactics. It has to stop, and soon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think my point is that torture is going to prolong this war rather than shorten it. I truly believe that this is going to be a war about ideas. Sure, we&#8217;re going to have to stop terrorists threats too, but in the long run terrorism will die out and become a nuisance simply because nobody wants to take part in something that is so obviously wrong. However, if we&#8217;re torturing people, somehow terrorism seems more justified to Muslim extremists.</p>
<p>And I too agree that Bush is duty bound to protect us, but prosecuting these people and sending them away is doing just that. Remember, we&#8217;ve let people out of Guantanamo after two or three years who had NO connections to Al Qaeda. They were just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Innocents are getting caught in the cross-logic here and that&#8217;s significant because that&#8217;s what happens when you have a backwards policy like indefinite detention. These people were never charged with a crime, and yet they&#8217;ve lost a few years of their life. And you can bet the US isn&#8217;t compensating them for their time. Guilty until proven guilty in Guantanamo. Well, it&#8217;s ridiculous for a democratic country like the United States using such Orwellian tactics. It has to stop, and soon.</p>
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		<title>By: JonBuck</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2005/11/13/if-we-dont-torture-why-did-we-hide-it/comment-page-1/#comment-3710</link>
		<dc:creator>JonBuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Nov 2005 07:22:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2005/11/13/if-we-dont-torture-why-did-we-hide-it/#comment-3710</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m wary of letting known members of terrorist groups go again.  That would come back to bite us in nasty ways.  Could we keep them for the duration as POWs? The legal grounding for that seems shaky, since they&#039;re not actually part of any national army.  The Bush Administration claims that there is no grounding in the Geneva Conventions regarding treatment of terrorists.  What I want to know is if this has legal grounding.  At least there are rules for the treatment of POWs.

If these BA claims have a grounding in fact and law, then the question becomes ethical: Should it be done?  Bush does have one thing right: He is duty-bound to prevent any more attacks on American soil.

I realize that this is an uncomfortable topic.  But these are very complex issues.  I have no love for the Bush Administration, either.  But I would like to end this war as quickly as possible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m wary of letting known members of terrorist groups go again.  That would come back to bite us in nasty ways.  Could we keep them for the duration as POWs? The legal grounding for that seems shaky, since they&#8217;re not actually part of any national army.  The Bush Administration claims that there is no grounding in the Geneva Conventions regarding treatment of terrorists.  What I want to know is if this has legal grounding.  At least there are rules for the treatment of POWs.</p>
<p>If these BA claims have a grounding in fact and law, then the question becomes ethical: Should it be done?  Bush does have one thing right: He is duty-bound to prevent any more attacks on American soil.</p>
<p>I realize that this is an uncomfortable topic.  But these are very complex issues.  I have no love for the Bush Administration, either.  But I would like to end this war as quickly as possible.</p>
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		<title>By: Justin Gardner</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2005/11/13/if-we-dont-torture-why-did-we-hide-it/comment-page-1/#comment-3709</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin Gardner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Nov 2005 05:44:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2005/11/13/if-we-dont-torture-why-did-we-hide-it/#comment-3709</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;How do get get intelligence regarding terrorist activities if we cannot detain and interrogate members of al-Qaeda and other groups?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Listen, detaining and interrogating prisoners is completely okay. But putting limits on how long we can hold people and what we do to them is needed. Right now we can hold anybody indefinitely and kill them.

And if we can&#039;t get information from them, then let&#039;s charge them, prosecute them and put them away legally.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Bad intelligence is one of the LeftÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s main criticisms of how we got into this war.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Agreed, but torture does not mean we&#039;re going to get any better intelligence. As McCain pointed out in his latest essay, he didn&#039;t tell the enemy any actionable intelligence when he was in Vietnam. He told them the starting offensive line of the Green Bay Packers. Anything to get them off their back. And McCain didn&#039;t think Allah was going to make him a martyr either. These people don&#039;t care about death, obviously.

I understand the concern from many about not being able to torture, but we are fighting a war of ideas, and we need to convince the world that the US&#039;s way is better. Torturing people and holding them without charge for life only reinforces the image that we&#039;ll do anything to anybody at anytime. That doesn&#039;t exactly scream &quot;Shining beacon of freedom.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>How do get get intelligence regarding terrorist activities if we cannot detain and interrogate members of al-Qaeda and other groups?</p></blockquote>
<p>Listen, detaining and interrogating prisoners is completely okay. But putting limits on how long we can hold people and what we do to them is needed. Right now we can hold anybody indefinitely and kill them.</p>
<p>And if we can&#8217;t get information from them, then let&#8217;s charge them, prosecute them and put them away legally.</p>
<blockquote><p>Bad intelligence is one of the LeftÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s main criticisms of how we got into this war.</p></blockquote>
<p>Agreed, but torture does not mean we&#8217;re going to get any better intelligence. As McCain pointed out in his latest essay, he didn&#8217;t tell the enemy any actionable intelligence when he was in Vietnam. He told them the starting offensive line of the Green Bay Packers. Anything to get them off their back. And McCain didn&#8217;t think Allah was going to make him a martyr either. These people don&#8217;t care about death, obviously.</p>
<p>I understand the concern from many about not being able to torture, but we are fighting a war of ideas, and we need to convince the world that the US&#8217;s way is better. Torturing people and holding them without charge for life only reinforces the image that we&#8217;ll do anything to anybody at anytime. That doesn&#8217;t exactly scream &#8220;Shining beacon of freedom.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: JonBuck</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2005/11/13/if-we-dont-torture-why-did-we-hide-it/comment-page-1/#comment-3708</link>
		<dc:creator>JonBuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Nov 2005 01:59:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2005/11/13/if-we-dont-torture-why-did-we-hide-it/#comment-3708</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not advocating torture.  But I do have a question:

How do get get intelligence regarding terrorist activities if we cannot detain and interrogate members of al-Qaeda and other groups?  Bad intelligence is one of the Left&#039;s main criticisms of how we got into this war.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not advocating torture.  But I do have a question:</p>
<p>How do get get intelligence regarding terrorist activities if we cannot detain and interrogate members of al-Qaeda and other groups?  Bad intelligence is one of the Left&#8217;s main criticisms of how we got into this war.</p>
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