Um, no.

I’m reading several centrist sites. I’m looking for a Third Way. But all I’m seeing in many places is a slightly watered-down version of the talking points of the existing dead-end polarized parties. In this situation, centrist has to be radical. Thinking has to escape boxes.

Agreed.

But honestly, this is what I liked about Murtha’s discussion on this issue. His argument for a timeline was to give notice to the Iraqis that they need to step up to the plate and provide for their own defense.

It’s the same argument as Welfare Reform. We’ll give you welfare for 5 years, but then you better find a job. We’ll give you two years to form an army, but then we’re out of here.

Frankly, I think if it’d been a Democratic President who had invaded Iraq, this is exactly the argument the Republicans would be making… and it’s a bit disengenuous of them to ignore it now.

If Iraq is left now then you have civil war and it’s awfully close to Iran, which is close to Israel etc….. We will only have to go back in and sort it all out again.

The worlds most powerful nation and its allies must stand fast and finish the job now.

I completely agree with this. I even think they should draw up their strength troop so we make sure what we broke is going to be fixed.

The stomach’s turning yellow wasn’t meant to be offensive and was not aimed at the US troops. It was my way of saying that history must not repeat itself and the coalition must not walk away now.

People in government are using Iraq for political leverage here and this must stop. Are the opposition of the war actually saying they would have left Saddam to continue butchering his people. I’m not Bush’s greatest fan but at least he had the guts to get on with what he believed to be right. Isn’t that what we elect these people to do. If they get it wrong we can vote them out.

If Iraq is left now then you have civil war and it’s awfully close to Iran, which is close to Israel etc….. We will only have to go back in and sort it all out again.

The worlds most powerful nation and its allies must stand fast and finish the job now. And its people must stop chattering and support those troops and wish them a speedy and safe return.

To address another point at the end of this post, though, in order to be a centrist, I don’t think the extremes you present here are valid. And frankly, from what you say it seems like you’re talking about me by talking around me.

Listen, I don’t like Bush’s policies as a whole, but I don’t think he’s a bad man and I’ve said as much. And Hitler? Jeezus…are you kidding me?

Let me ask you, do you disagree with my points about maintaining the troop strength in Iraq?

In any event, I stand for maintainging the peace in Iraq by keeping our soldiers there. It’s a tough balance and a hard fight, but I think we should stay there and do everything we can to convince the Iraqis we shoud stay. And if we don’t, we should go, but if you break it you buy it, and it certainly feels as if we’ve broken it given the levels of violence you now see in the country.

In any event, good thoughts from Obama on this one. Much appeciated…

After some false starts, it’s clear to anyone paying attention that we’ve gotten our act together regarding getting Iraq a representative government. The training camps we’ve put together along with our allies are spitting out 7-10k of new troops a month and our forces are putting them through the advanced course by fighting alongside them, first in the lead, then supporting them, then letting them do the job on their own.

Everybody talks about insufficient boots on the ground but isn’t it odd that those 7-10k of new boots every month are ignored

Jon Wright - I’ll always be grateful to the UK for stepping up to the plate for the fight. Maybe you haven’t got the notice what kind of fight this is, exactly. It’s not a colonial adventure. We’re looking to stand up the locals so that they can do their own fighting as they develop an indigenous muslim democracy. For the kind of fight that needs to happen, the quicker we can responsibly leave, the better.

There are currently two real dangers: First, panic and pull out at the last minute before the current government is ready with an army better than the insurgents that are going to be left after we leave. Second, provide a propaganda victory to the enemy that our planned departure is, in fact cowardice or a lack of stamina.

Please keep that second one in mind as you toss around charges of yellow belly.

The American people love a bit of sabre rattling, I mean they are just like the Brits on that score. Its just when the body bags start coming home you don’t like it and your stomach’s start turning yellow. Your like a big bully that finds the person he’s bullying isn’t afraid anymore.

Don’t get me wrong here or take this the wrong way, i love America absolutely. I’m just stating facts that you can’t come home just yet and “get out” as you put it. Its no longer about who has the biggest bombs anymore, its about who has the guts to see it through. And its going to take a lot longer than you think with these Arabs, there a different prospect entirely.