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	<title>Comments on: On The Miami Airline Shooting</title>
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	<link>http://donklephant.com/2005/12/08/on-the-miami-airline-shooting/</link>
	<description>Big Teeth. Huge Ass. Surprisingly Reasonable.</description>
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		<title>By: Phillip J. Birmingham</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2005/12/08/on-the-miami-airline-shooting/comment-page-1/#comment-4494</link>
		<dc:creator>Phillip J. Birmingham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Dec 2005 03:55:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2005/12/08/on-the-miami-airline-shooting/#comment-4494</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I think that everyone who is saying, ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…â€œtut tut, poor guy, but he was asking for itÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã‚? is being horrendously insensitive and irresponsible. At absolute worst, the marshals should have taken ONE shot, and that specifically to the foot or leg to keep him from running.

Better yet, they should have been equipped with nonlethal apprehension methods such as tasers - shooting off guns in a plane is a BAD thing. Of course tasers might be just as bad, considering they donÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t want you to even use your cell phoneÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã‚Â¦&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I certainly don&#039;t think that Alpizar &quot;had it coming.&quot;  He was no threat, he was apparently not in possession of his faculties, and he deserved nothing more than to be removed from the plane and given whatever help he needed.

That said, the reason that I am inclined to give the Marshals the benefit of the doubt is that they couldn&#039;t have known that.  If he *was* claiming to have a bomb, and if he *did* reach into his bag, it&#039;s not clear what choice the Marshals had other than to shoot to kill. 

If he were carrying a bomb, shooting to wound would not stop him from triggering it.  I&#039;d be afraid that a taser would cause him to trigger a bomb, were he carrying one -- setting aside the possibility of a &quot;lucky&quot; shot sending the right currents through the detonator.

Again, this is tragic, and Alpizar didn&#039;t deserve to die.  But, if the Marshals really believed he had a bomb (and this is what the issue hinges upon in my opinion) it was very likely that he was going to die, whether or not he deserved it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I think that everyone who is saying, ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…â€œtut tut, poor guy, but he was asking for itÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã‚? is being horrendously insensitive and irresponsible. At absolute worst, the marshals should have taken ONE shot, and that specifically to the foot or leg to keep him from running.</p>
<p>Better yet, they should have been equipped with nonlethal apprehension methods such as tasers &#8211; shooting off guns in a plane is a BAD thing. Of course tasers might be just as bad, considering they donÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t want you to even use your cell phoneÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã‚Â¦</p></blockquote>
<p>I certainly don&#8217;t think that Alpizar &#8220;had it coming.&#8221;  He was no threat, he was apparently not in possession of his faculties, and he deserved nothing more than to be removed from the plane and given whatever help he needed.</p>
<p>That said, the reason that I am inclined to give the Marshals the benefit of the doubt is that they couldn&#8217;t have known that.  If he *was* claiming to have a bomb, and if he *did* reach into his bag, it&#8217;s not clear what choice the Marshals had other than to shoot to kill. </p>
<p>If he were carrying a bomb, shooting to wound would not stop him from triggering it.  I&#8217;d be afraid that a taser would cause him to trigger a bomb, were he carrying one &#8212; setting aside the possibility of a &#8220;lucky&#8221; shot sending the right currents through the detonator.</p>
<p>Again, this is tragic, and Alpizar didn&#8217;t deserve to die.  But, if the Marshals really believed he had a bomb (and this is what the issue hinges upon in my opinion) it was very likely that he was going to die, whether or not he deserved it.</p>
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		<title>By: sleipner</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2005/12/08/on-the-miami-airline-shooting/comment-page-1/#comment-4484</link>
		<dc:creator>sleipner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Dec 2005 21:40:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2005/12/08/on-the-miami-airline-shooting/#comment-4484</guid>
		<description>Frankly I think the fear-mongering tactics this administration has constantly used since 9-11 as a way of boosting its ratings at the expense of common sense is at least in part to blame.

Yeah, I know, yet another moonbat blaming Bush for everything, but seriously, they&#039;ve blown it way out of proportion, and this level of paranoia is the result.

I think that everyone who is saying, &quot;tut tut, poor guy, but he was asking for it&quot; is being horrendously insensitive and irresponsible.  At absolute worst, the marshals should have taken ONE shot, and that specifically to the foot or leg to keep him from running.

Better yet, they should have been equipped with nonlethal apprehension methods such as tasers - shooting off guns in a plane is a BAD thing.  Of course tasers might be just as bad, considering they don&#039;t want you to even use your cell phone...

We are taking the first steps down the slippery slope to George Orwell&#039;s 1984 - and I for one do not intend to allow it to happen without protest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Frankly I think the fear-mongering tactics this administration has constantly used since 9-11 as a way of boosting its ratings at the expense of common sense is at least in part to blame.</p>
<p>Yeah, I know, yet another moonbat blaming Bush for everything, but seriously, they&#8217;ve blown it way out of proportion, and this level of paranoia is the result.</p>
<p>I think that everyone who is saying, &#8220;tut tut, poor guy, but he was asking for it&#8221; is being horrendously insensitive and irresponsible.  At absolute worst, the marshals should have taken ONE shot, and that specifically to the foot or leg to keep him from running.</p>
<p>Better yet, they should have been equipped with nonlethal apprehension methods such as tasers &#8211; shooting off guns in a plane is a BAD thing.  Of course tasers might be just as bad, considering they don&#8217;t want you to even use your cell phone&#8230;</p>
<p>We are taking the first steps down the slippery slope to George Orwell&#8217;s 1984 &#8211; and I for one do not intend to allow it to happen without protest.</p>
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		<title>By: Phillip J. Birmingham</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2005/12/08/on-the-miami-airline-shooting/comment-page-1/#comment-4479</link>
		<dc:creator>Phillip J. Birmingham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Dec 2005 20:57:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2005/12/08/on-the-miami-airline-shooting/#comment-4479</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;Apparently the man who was shot in Miami was mentally ill. That doesnÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t excuse his actions at all.&lt;/em&gt;

Actually, from a judicial standpoint, it does, doesn&#039;t it?  I mean, if he hadn&#039;t been killed, but rather caught, charged, and tried, wouldn&#039;t he likely be acquitted on grounds of insanity?

That&#039;s not to say that the Marshals weren&#039;t justified in what they did -- maybe they were, maybe they weren&#039;t.  I&#039;m inclined to give them the benefit of that doubt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Apparently the man who was shot in Miami was mentally ill. That doesnÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t excuse his actions at all.</em></p>
<p>Actually, from a judicial standpoint, it does, doesn&#8217;t it?  I mean, if he hadn&#8217;t been killed, but rather caught, charged, and tried, wouldn&#8217;t he likely be acquitted on grounds of insanity?</p>
<p>That&#8217;s not to say that the Marshals weren&#8217;t justified in what they did &#8212; maybe they were, maybe they weren&#8217;t.  I&#8217;m inclined to give them the benefit of that doubt.</p>
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		<title>By: Joshua</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2005/12/08/on-the-miami-airline-shooting/comment-page-1/#comment-4474</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Dec 2005 17:44:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2005/12/08/on-the-miami-airline-shooting/#comment-4474</guid>
		<description>Perhaps the best question that arises from this incident is the boradest one: When our government (or agents thereof) takes an action that are perfectly legal, prudent and in good faith, but the end result of that action is that innocent people are harmed, or in this case killed, what are society&#039;s obligations toward (1) those victims and/or their families, and (2) society itself, to prevent a similar incident from happening again (to the extent that it&#039;s possible to do so)?

This applies not only to situations like the tarmac shooting, but also to things like wrongful executions, or any manner of mistaken law enforcement actions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps the best question that arises from this incident is the boradest one: When our government (or agents thereof) takes an action that are perfectly legal, prudent and in good faith, but the end result of that action is that innocent people are harmed, or in this case killed, what are society&#8217;s obligations toward (1) those victims and/or their families, and (2) society itself, to prevent a similar incident from happening again (to the extent that it&#8217;s possible to do so)?</p>
<p>This applies not only to situations like the tarmac shooting, but also to things like wrongful executions, or any manner of mistaken law enforcement actions.</p>
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