Unfortunately, what you find so “perplexing and disconcerting” is that someone could question the wisdom of this War. Murtha was in support of it, but if you listen to all of his statements and suggestions, Rob is right, he is not so much turned off by War, but turned off by this administrations execution of this War, another fact that I’m sure you find “perplexing and disconcerting”.

So what does “exceptionally haunted” mean? Are you saying he’s crazy? Suffering from PTSD? Crazy like McCain because of his war experience? Have you been talking to Rove?

On another note, objectivity alone guarentees your decsion will not be a fully informed one. Personal experience doesn’t guarentee wisdom but at the same time very few wise decisions are ever made without it. Objectivity is no panacea and subjectivity holds up half the sky.

Rick

Rick

I view him as being exceptionally haunted by his experiences in Vietnam as well as being used unfairly by the media as a type of lightning rod for anti-war rhetoric.

Where are you drawing this inference?

Until very recently he has been VERY strongly pro military.

I think (I don’t know, and I bet you don’t either) that he is fed up with the incompetence demonstrated by this administration is prosecuting this war. And he has been critical of the treatment of the returning veterans. I think this sounds more likely than your psycho-bable

rob…While I don’t agree with Denise’s position on this, one can still criticize critics of the war and not enlist. The whole “chickenhawk� meme is a fallacy and you know it.

What are you talking about. I’m not talking about criticizing the war.

I’m saying that he said if he was of age he wouldn’t enlist. If you are going to criticize that statement you must obviously think that he should enlist. If she thinks he should enlist, she must also think it good idea for her.

To be honest I just can’t fathom the simple-mindedness of criticizing someone saying that they would not join up.

I don’t regard Murtha as a peace loving, tree hugging hippie, rather I view him as being exceptionally haunted by his experiences in Vietnam as well as being used unfairly by the media as a type of lightning rod for anti-war rhetoric.

Murtha recent comments don’t support the record he has built over the years, as well as his commendable service in the military — that’s what is so perplexing and disconcerting.

You’re an opportunist, and not that you don’t have the right to be so, but common implying that Murtha is a peace loving, tree hugging hippy is out of line. The truth is that since Murtha came out against the war people – everyday people – are starting to agree that the War is not worth it. Look into Murtha’s past votes and actions regarding the millitary and say that this man is against the millitary. This is just another assault on an opponent for you. Ask Cheney if he’d join the millitary and he’d say he has better things to do. Don’t attack this man because you disagree with his stance on this War. And he has offered a number of options on how to get out of this mess, and although you will say it is Cut and Run, that just is not true. Really read his plan for getting out of Iraq.

The US military today, especially the Army and Marine Corps, is in vastly superior shape to where it was in Vietnam or at any time since. When I was in (post-Vietnam era), there was a pervasive lack of professionalism. Nobody really knew what they were doing, and a significant percentage didn’t care. Drop us into a combat zone and we would have been in a world of hurt. The only saving grace was that the Soviet hordes which we were ostensibly training to fight were even less prepared than we were. That isn’t the case today. Our military knows how to fight, and is a world ahead of where it was when I was in, both in skill and spirit. If you’re serious about serving in the military, now is a great time to be in. Certainly better than when I was in! The fact that a distinguished career military man has become so sick in spirit that he can’t see this, is incredibly sad.

Of course.

However, unless I see Murtha’s statements in context (anyone have the Nightline transcript?) I can’t say how responsible they were.

Saying “I don’t think anyone should ever join the military” would be totally irresponsible.

Saying “Maybe you should wait for the Iraq fiasco to blow over, and see how the rumors of attacks on Iran pan out, before you enlist,” not so much. That’s certainly the advice I’d give to anyone who asked me.

If you believe, as I do and as Murtha apparently does, that the President has squandered a large number of American lives to no good end, would it be responsible to say anything else?

It’s not really clear from the Reuters story which he said, but my inclination is toward the latter. You don’t see too many 37-year veterans with a pacifistic streak as wide as would be required to say the former.

No. But, I don’t feel that it’s a Congressman’s job to be a recruiter for the military. Do you?

I feel that it’s a Congressman’s job to encourage serving our country and the military does offer such an avenue.

I would expect that more discretion would be used before making blanket statements such as “I wouldn’t join the military today.”

Murtha could have countered back to the interviewer on the question, but instead chose to answer a simple “no” he wouldn’t join the military today.

Again, given his position, this response is certainly deemed newsworthy for a reason.

So, either Murtha is using the media or being used – personally I think it’s the latter and that’s a sad situation when a man that is so greatly affected by a war experience might be used in such a manner.

I’d be lots more worried about the judgement of someone who’d been in combat and didn’t appear to have been affected by it.

Yes, having a sociopath type mentality would offer a different set of concerns.

Do you agree though that in the type of leadership role that Murtha holds there should be an objectivity exhibited which allows for responsible comments, decisions, and actions?

I know a lot of what we conclude relates to our interpretations and I respect your opinion – that’s what good discussion is all about : )

I don’t think Jack Murtha’s statement will be affecting our military so drastically. I believe you are over-estimating his power as ranking minority member of the defense subcommittee.

I see your point, although Murtha’s statement was powerful enough to make the news, and with the way the headline reads, cast doubt upon the military.

The media can definitely heighten the power of these types of statements.

I’d be lots more worried about the judgement of someone who’d been in combat and didn’t appear to have been affected by it.

I don’t think Jack Murtha’s statement will be affecting our military so drastically. I believe you are over-estimating his power as ranking minority member of the defense subcommittee.

No. But, I don’t feel that it’s a Congressman’s job to be a recruiter for the military. Do you?

If Murtha was actually telling people to not the join the military then his comments would be suspect. This isn’t what he’s saying, though.

I appreciate the perspective you offered in your reply.

A question though …
Would Murtha’s comments to date encourage you to join the military?

Murtha is against this war, and since a new recruit would almost certainly serve in this war, he feels that that is a sufficient reason to not join “today.”

His comments leave open the possibility that people who support the war (and even those who don’t) are justified in joining if that is what they personally want to do.

This is far from your suggestion that he is claiming that the military is flawed to the point of not offering a viable opportunity to serve the country.

I don’t think that Murtha is against all wars or the military in general. You seem to be the only one suggesting this.

And furthermore, why ask that question? Are you angry with Murtha?

No, I’m not angry with Murtha and I’m not trying to reach, it’s just a concern that I wanted to express about Murtha’s objectivity regarding the military.

Given what he experienced in Vietnam and how it appears to have deeply impacted him, aren’t you at all concerned that this degree of emotionalism could be clouding his judgment in this area?

From what I’ve read, I don’t think Murtha suggested that he doesn’t support the military or its existence.

I don’t want to blow Murtha’s comments out of proportion, but …

How exactly do his comments to date support the military?

The function and purpose of our military goes beyond the War in iraq; it exists beyond a particular administration.
Murtha’s comments would appear to be throwing the baby with the bath water by saying because of policy regarding Iraq, the military is flawed to the point of it not offering a viable opportunity to serve one’s country — at least from Mr. Murtha’s point of view.

The point of concern regarding our country’s future is a fundmental one …

What is a primary function of the military?

Since conducting war is definitely one of the functions and Murtha is, by his comments, against war period, doesn’t it seem given Murtha’s role on the defense subcommittee, that there would be a concern for the future of our military?

Yes, war should not romanticized nor its ramifications lightly considered. There is definitely a necessity for the existence and support of our military though.

From what I’ve read, I don’t think Murtha suggested that he doesn’t support the military or its existence. Sure, he’s against the present war, but so are many folks in this country…some polls even show a majority.

Again, I think you’re reaching…