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	<title>Comments on: Mourning the Miners</title>
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	<link>http://donklephant.com/2006/01/04/mourning-the-miners/</link>
	<description>Big Teeth. Huge Ass. Surprisingly Reasonable.</description>
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		<title>By: RODNEY YOUNG</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2006/01/04/mourning-the-miners/comment-page-1/#comment-5042</link>
		<dc:creator>RODNEY YOUNG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jan 2006 18:33:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=1648#comment-5042</guid>
		<description>Well I feel so impacted by this event that i felt the need to express my thoughts.
First , reports state that each miner carries a device to purify the air for a limited time. Yet in every mine diasaster it seems to take a minimum of 24 hours (usually much longer) to get to the miners. My question is this. If air purification is such a factor in a mine accident why cant oxygen stations be placed inside these mines?  Or why cant the devices be made to purify air continously? 
Second if the lack of good air is responsible for these deaths then everyone from the goverment to the onsite safety personel failed these poor souls. The company should pay dearly for this mistake and the mistake of letting loved ones believe that they were coming home.
I mean how hard is it to accurately report something of this magnitude?
Third I read that  a fight broke out and police were brought in. I am not an advocator of violence but in this case I believe it was certainly justified. Just imagine if it were you. This situation would most certainly drive anyone to desire vigilante justice for such a herendous mistake.

I feel so deeply impacted for these families. We are under threat of terrorism in this nation.  Well  I ask you this what about corporate terrorism? By this I mean corporations taking short cuts or allowing unsafe condtions to ongo at the cost of workers lives. Osama did not see any value in the lives he took and neither did the heads of this company (in my opinon). 
The bottom line is most likely the cause of this tragedy. I can only hope that their made to pay for their blasse approach to safety. My prayers have been with these families since the start and will continue until justice is served.
If you are reading this then please join with me in making a voice loud enough to be heard by the powers to be. THANK YOU.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well I feel so impacted by this event that i felt the need to express my thoughts.<br />
First , reports state that each miner carries a device to purify the air for a limited time. Yet in every mine diasaster it seems to take a minimum of 24 hours (usually much longer) to get to the miners. My question is this. If air purification is such a factor in a mine accident why cant oxygen stations be placed inside these mines?  Or why cant the devices be made to purify air continously?<br />
Second if the lack of good air is responsible for these deaths then everyone from the goverment to the onsite safety personel failed these poor souls. The company should pay dearly for this mistake and the mistake of letting loved ones believe that they were coming home.<br />
I mean how hard is it to accurately report something of this magnitude?<br />
Third I read that  a fight broke out and police were brought in. I am not an advocator of violence but in this case I believe it was certainly justified. Just imagine if it were you. This situation would most certainly drive anyone to desire vigilante justice for such a herendous mistake.</p>
<p>I feel so deeply impacted for these families. We are under threat of terrorism in this nation.  Well  I ask you this what about corporate terrorism? By this I mean corporations taking short cuts or allowing unsafe condtions to ongo at the cost of workers lives. Osama did not see any value in the lives he took and neither did the heads of this company (in my opinon).<br />
The bottom line is most likely the cause of this tragedy. I can only hope that their made to pay for their blasse approach to safety. My prayers have been with these families since the start and will continue until justice is served.<br />
If you are reading this then please join with me in making a voice loud enough to be heard by the powers to be. THANK YOU.</p>
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		<title>By: DosPeros</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2006/01/04/mourning-the-miners/comment-page-1/#comment-5007</link>
		<dc:creator>DosPeros</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jan 2006 04:43:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=1648#comment-5007</guid>
		<description>I suspect the cost of bringing the mine up to legal safety standards was higher than the penalty imposed against the company for noncompliance.  This is common is variety of administrative regulations.

The way to fix it is obviously to reverse that equation and make the penalty substantially larger than the cost of compliance. 

I agree with Joshua on this point:

ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…â€œPerhaps it is simply human nature to lack the will to take any sort of preventive action that involves any substantial effort or sacrifice until the consequences of not doing so become concrete.ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã‚?

Yes, it is imminent danger that motivates human beings -- not distant or removed danger.  Case in point, I lite a cigarette. Many of you are afraid of the Asian Bird flu when statistically you should be far more afraid of electrocuting yourself with your toaster.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suspect the cost of bringing the mine up to legal safety standards was higher than the penalty imposed against the company for noncompliance.  This is common is variety of administrative regulations.</p>
<p>The way to fix it is obviously to reverse that equation and make the penalty substantially larger than the cost of compliance. </p>
<p>I agree with Joshua on this point:</p>
<p>ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…â€œPerhaps it is simply human nature to lack the will to take any sort of preventive action that involves any substantial effort or sacrifice until the consequences of not doing so become concrete.ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã‚?</p>
<p>Yes, it is imminent danger that motivates human beings &#8212; not distant or removed danger.  Case in point, I lite a cigarette. Many of you are afraid of the Asian Bird flu when statistically you should be far more afraid of electrocuting yourself with your toaster.</p>
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		<title>By: Joshua</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2006/01/04/mourning-the-miners/comment-page-1/#comment-5005</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jan 2006 00:55:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=1648#comment-5005</guid>
		<description>UPDATE: On Fox News this evening it was reported that although federal regulators did indeed find many violations, none of them by themselves were severe enough to warrant a shutdown of the mine. Evidently the relevant safety regulations do not provide for a mine to be shut down because of cumulative lesser violations, only for severe individual ones.

If this is true, then the problem isn&#039;t even with the regulators not doing their jobs after all - it&#039;s with the regulations themselves. While it&#039;s still not clear that the violations contributed to this disaster, maybe it will at least lead to a tightening of mining safety regulations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>UPDATE: On Fox News this evening it was reported that although federal regulators did indeed find many violations, none of them by themselves were severe enough to warrant a shutdown of the mine. Evidently the relevant safety regulations do not provide for a mine to be shut down because of cumulative lesser violations, only for severe individual ones.</p>
<p>If this is true, then the problem isn&#8217;t even with the regulators not doing their jobs after all &#8211; it&#8217;s with the regulations themselves. While it&#8217;s still not clear that the violations contributed to this disaster, maybe it will at least lead to a tightening of mining safety regulations.</p>
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		<title>By: Joshua</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2006/01/04/mourning-the-miners/comment-page-1/#comment-5004</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jan 2006 22:59:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=1648#comment-5004</guid>
		<description>Ford4x4: Even if DoL or OSHA regulations called for a shutdown after the nth citation, regulations mean little if the will to fully enforce them is not there, for whatever reason. I repeat my last sentence above, with a little emphasis added: &quot;Perhaps it is simply human nature to lack the will to take any sort of preventive action &lt;b&gt;that involves any substantial effort or sacrifice&lt;/b&gt; until the consequences of not doing so become concrete.&quot;

Why wouldn&#039;t the DoL have moved to shut down the mine sooner? My guess is that, like most government bureaucracies, KYAC (Keep Your @$$ Covered) is their default mode of operation, and they (or to be more precise, their superiors in the Bush administration) feared the more immediate consequence of the PR/political backlash likely to result from doing something as drastic as shutting a mine down - which, mind you, amounts to punishing the miners (by throwing them out of a job, however temporarily) for the transgressions of their employer - more than they feared the potentially much-greater &lt;b&gt;but, at the time, still unrealized&lt;/b&gt; backlash resulting from fatalities.

If this comes off as cruel or harsh, I only point it out because it strikes me as nothing new in the grand scheme of things. Again, this same theme seems to come up over and over and over again in the news (9/11/2001 was just the most obvious example), and invariably the reason no concrete preventive action was ever taken boiled down to the lack of will to decisively act on the part of whomever was in a position to do so (be it regulators, law enforcement, politicians or what have you).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ford4x4: Even if DoL or OSHA regulations called for a shutdown after the nth citation, regulations mean little if the will to fully enforce them is not there, for whatever reason. I repeat my last sentence above, with a little emphasis added: &#8220;Perhaps it is simply human nature to lack the will to take any sort of preventive action <b>that involves any substantial effort or sacrifice</b> until the consequences of not doing so become concrete.&#8221;</p>
<p>Why wouldn&#8217;t the DoL have moved to shut down the mine sooner? My guess is that, like most government bureaucracies, KYAC (Keep Your @$$ Covered) is their default mode of operation, and they (or to be more precise, their superiors in the Bush administration) feared the more immediate consequence of the PR/political backlash likely to result from doing something as drastic as shutting a mine down &#8211; which, mind you, amounts to punishing the miners (by throwing them out of a job, however temporarily) for the transgressions of their employer &#8211; more than they feared the potentially much-greater <b>but, at the time, still unrealized</b> backlash resulting from fatalities.</p>
<p>If this comes off as cruel or harsh, I only point it out because it strikes me as nothing new in the grand scheme of things. Again, this same theme seems to come up over and over and over again in the news (9/11/2001 was just the most obvious example), and invariably the reason no concrete preventive action was ever taken boiled down to the lack of will to decisively act on the part of whomever was in a position to do so (be it regulators, law enforcement, politicians or what have you).</p>
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		<title>By: Luke</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2006/01/04/mourning-the-miners/comment-page-1/#comment-5001</link>
		<dc:creator>Luke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jan 2006 22:23:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=1648#comment-5001</guid>
		<description>I donÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t think he has ever cared about civil liberties ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ he sees his job as protecting us, not protecting our liberties.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I donÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t think he has ever cared about civil liberties ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ he sees his job as protecting us, not protecting our liberties.</p>
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		<title>By: ford4x4</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2006/01/04/mourning-the-miners/comment-page-1/#comment-4994</link>
		<dc:creator>ford4x4</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jan 2006 17:08:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=1648#comment-4994</guid>
		<description>Joshua,
I hope I&#039;m misreading what you are saying.

I believe Denise is asking why this mine wasn&#039;t shut down PRIOR TO this accident.  Why were these 12 lives lost, when the Labor dept cited them 273 times?   Shouldn&#039;t they have been shut down after oh,  I don&#039;t know... the &lt;b&gt;10th&lt;/b&gt; violation?

These deaths were easily preventable.  This is much more black and white than 9/11.   It&#039;s a clear cut case of a govt agency behaving like the UN...  pointing out problems, and doing abolutely nothing about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joshua,<br />
I hope I&#8217;m misreading what you are saying.</p>
<p>I believe Denise is asking why this mine wasn&#8217;t shut down PRIOR TO this accident.  Why were these 12 lives lost, when the Labor dept cited them 273 times?   Shouldn&#8217;t they have been shut down after oh,  I don&#8217;t know&#8230; the <b>10th</b> violation?</p>
<p>These deaths were easily preventable.  This is much more black and white than 9/11.   It&#8217;s a clear cut case of a govt agency behaving like the UN&#8230;  pointing out problems, and doing abolutely nothing about it.</p>
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		<title>By: Joshua</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2006/01/04/mourning-the-miners/comment-page-1/#comment-4991</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jan 2006 16:15:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=1648#comment-4991</guid>
		<description>Deinse Best wrote:

Seems as if the dynamic here has been until an accident happens and lives are lost, no action or meaningful penalty is enacted to address and avoid such a disaster.

Of course, this selfsame &quot;lock-the-stable-door-after-the-horse-escapes&quot; dynamic could be ascribed to any number and manner of other preventable calamities (pre-9/11/2001 anti-terrorism measures come to mind). Perhaps it is simply human nature to lack the will to take any sort of preventive action that involves any substantial effort or sacrifice until the consequences of not doing so become concrete.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Deinse Best wrote:</p>
<p>Seems as if the dynamic here has been until an accident happens and lives are lost, no action or meaningful penalty is enacted to address and avoid such a disaster.</p>
<p>Of course, this selfsame &#8220;lock-the-stable-door-after-the-horse-escapes&#8221; dynamic could be ascribed to any number and manner of other preventable calamities (pre-9/11/2001 anti-terrorism measures come to mind). Perhaps it is simply human nature to lack the will to take any sort of preventive action that involves any substantial effort or sacrifice until the consequences of not doing so become concrete.</p>
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