what a waste of potential, he was kind of like the Wesley Clark of the future.

Oh well

But you are right this thread has gone on too long.

We just disagree. That happens. I think religion is a drain on society, you feel it power of good, and gives you a moral base.

I cannot comment on on all of your responses, and this thread has gotten ridicoulous, but I will only say a few more things:

No, I don’t have a problem with no censorship of pay channels. I believe in free markets with less government interferrence whenever possible. I know that I seem to contradict what you may percieve the RR to be in your mind, but that’s what my point has been over and over. We’re not all off our rockers, in fact MOST of us are pretty sensible, but the propaganda easily finds those who will marginalize our credibility among rational thinkers.

I do think that some restrictions on free TV and none on pay will not guarantee the collapse of free TV. Radio has always had the FCC looking over its shoulder and is still strong. As a cyclist, do I avoid riding through the states with helmet restrictions? Better yet, as a smoker, do I not frequent non-smoking establishments? Why would those laws exist? The answer is to protect the innocent. I may not like it, but the point is that these type of restrictions to personal liberties are all around us and it doesn’t guarantee a collapse of the industry it affects in any way.

And the republican record in rights for women and environmental protection is an issue that I stand by and I have done my research going all the way back to the progressive movement of the early 1900’s. But I bet your predessessors were too busy focusing on the audacity of Carrie Nation and her self righteous campaign – thinking that represented all women of faith – to even notice. I will admit that our current approaches to how best to protect the environment is different. I could actually bore you with a thesis on the many fallacies to the common man’s understanding of the issue, but that would take too long.

Back to your view on all things Christian. It seems that you have had some bad experiences with televangelists, politicians who talk about God but a jsut as slimey as the next guy, heck maybe you’re even still upset about the crusades. But don’t disregard all the positive medical, humanitarian, and educational contributions that the set of values has brought to the world. Organizations that I would imagine you support like 75% of our hospitals, Universities, the Red Cross, YMCA & YWCA, just to name a few. You sight the ugly ducklings and let that form your opinion. We are not dangerous, we are a culture who will vote to protect that culture. One other entity born from religious reasons – USA. It’s not a State free FROM religion it’s a state with freedom OF religion.

“The church was not merely a thermometer that recorded the ideas and principles of popular opinion; it was a thermostat that transformed the mores of society.”
Martin Luther King Jr., Letter from Birmingham Jail, April 1963

And believe it or not I went through the post and deleted the more snarkey parts before I submited it.

See, dismissing the need for some forms of censorship isn’t just about changing the channel, it’s also about respecting that just because sex and violence sells, doesn’t mean not that it should be readily available as much as it always is.

There is also an off switch on that TV. If your kids can’t take a day without TV, you’re going to have to shell out $30 for cable, then set it up so they can only get NICK. You can watch Spongebob and Jimmy Neutron 24 hrs a day.

Hey, I don’t want my kids stumbling on the TV preachers on Sunday morning, but I don’t call to have is censored.

So you don’t think Pat Robertson is a good example? Well how about naming a couple of good examples from the religious right. Ralph Reed, Tom Delay, Dobson, Falwell, Schlafly, Roy Moore, John Ashcroft.

used to be that the free airwaves were shared to respect those who wanted to enjoy this form of entertainment with their family.

So you have no problem with no censorship of cable and satellite? If over the air was censored and cable free of all regulation, I gaurantee over the air would be dead in a year.

First of all, some of the items are true of the religious right, but not by a pervasive consensus. Such as denying evolution, discrimination against gays, sex education
..snip..

I’m going to have to disagree with you here. The republicans did a very fine job of getting same sex marriage issues on the ballot to bring out the vote. Here in Ohio, thanks to Blackwell, they passed some sort of “save marriage” law. He appeals strickly to the religous right.

Next, I will unequivically deny your assertions that the religious right would have in its group anything more than a small minority that supports discrimnation towards women & environmental distruction.

Do you really believe this? Who do you think it is then? The RR want women to obey their men, stay home and have babies. All you church goers were out there for the ERA? I don’t think so. Well, the Unitarians, but you don’t really count them do you?

If you vote republican you have to take the blame for the environment. Who else could come up with something like the clear sky initiative?

I’m not even going to get in to your comments about Ted Kennedy. You only prove my point.

And guess what, those “people” on Springer, if they vote at all, they vote republican. Why? Well, to get the death taxed revoked, and so Bush can kick so Turrist azz, and because Rush told them to, and he makes them feel important.

I’m just feed up with the moralizing from the RR. All the money and time that goes to churches; what if instead of building churches everywhere you look, that money went to something useful, like feeding hungry children, or birth control /HIV in the third world. Don’t kid yourself, the godless left probably does more to help the more unfortunate than the sanctimonious right.

PS – Justin how about adding a preview (like John Cole), and while I’m wishing, a spell checker, my spelling sucks.

First of all, some of the items are true of the religious right, but not by a pervasive consensus. Such as denying evolution, discrimination against gays, sex education, or fear and loathing of anything remotely sexual & Terri Schiavo. My point continues to go back to the lens you choose to look through and what is getting your attention. If you choose to watch the 700 Club with the idea that everyone who votes their values and is Christian must be just like Pat Robertson, you have a very sad and inaccurate picture of us. Christians make the same mistake when they watch Springer and think that represents all the unchurched people in America. Or watching Ted Kennedy slinging lies about Alito at the confirmation hearings and assuming all libs are just as despicable. Or watching Nagin’s responses in New Orleans and generalizing his chocolate, don’t-let-the-uppity-whites-come-back dream to the dream of many minorities to be judged on the basis of their character. It just isn’t fair.

Next, I will unequivically deny your assertions that the religious right would have in its group anything more than a small minority that supports discrimnation towards women & environmental distruction. Additionally, to clarify an opposition to stem cell research, its least promising form, found to cause cancer in lab tests, is embryonic stem cell research. And the opposition is to the government funding of the practice. If it were so promising, why can’t it be funded privately?

Lastly, your most accurate characterization was that there has been a push for censorship on books, TV, radio, you name it. At times, especially on the book banning, this was done in a shameless Putian style. However, despite all their efforts, please tune into network TV, the kind that is broadcast to any person, despite their values, without a purchase by that person. Now imagine that you want to enjoy this free service with your 8 year old without sending the child constant messages of drugs, adultry, lying, killing, etc.. It used to be that the free airwaves were shared to respect those who wanted to enjoy this form of entertainment with their family. Now, it just simply isn’t offered. See, dismissing the need for some forms of censorship isn’t just about changing the channel, it’s also about respecting that just because sex and violence sells, doesn’t mean not that it should be readily available as much as it always is.

yay, thanks!

type a:
LEFT BRACKET (above the comma) blockquote RIGHT BRACKET

Then what you want to quote.

LEFT BRACKET /blockquote RIGHT BRACKET

If you were in charge of this country, I would give it 10 years before a city gets nuked by jihadists. Then I would expect a Dhimmi like you to “pay tribute out of hand until [you] are utterly subdued.” (koran 9:29)

You seem to be forgetting that the religious right has about 100 times more political power in America than jihadists.

The religious right can vote in droves. Are you honestly ignorant enough to claim that the country has to worry about jihadists inflitrating our eletoral process?

I wouldn’t be surprised.

Since you think the religious right isn’t a powerful threat to our Constitution and that Republicans have no problem violating our Constitution in order to pander to them, I have two words for you to reflect on:

Terri Schiavo.

But that doesn’t mean the entire religious right is like that. In fact, the vast majority aren’t like that.

I hope you are right, but I don’t think so.

I wouldn’t want to waste $10K-$20K, but I think if you gave $1000 to a couple of television preachers, and sounded obviously old and infirm when you did it, within a month they and others would have it all.

After my GM gave to one or two of the TV preachers, she started getting calls from others, they must communicate between themselves. Luckily my mom found out and stopped the fleecing, before very much was gone, but I think it was a good lesson.

Watch the 700 Club and tell me again the VAST majority isn’t like that. Pat Robertson actually chats with God regularly; either he is a charlotan, or psychotic. If you have read about his mining operations in Liberia you would probably think it was the former.

I disagree with the first part

That was in response to TM who said the nanny left is more dangerous to democracy than the religious right. Is that what you are disagreeing to?

I think diversity of opinion in this country is what makes us a great democracy.

diveristiy of opinion is fine. My problem is the religious right not only has an opinion, they want to force it on other people. If you don’t like something on TV change the channel, don’t try to get it taken off.

But hating anybody who isn’t in their sect? Well, that’s certainly a very clumsy generalization.

OK that wasn’t very well written. But from a group that should be teaching love, tolerance and acceptance; I see intolerance and hate.

Back you your origianl point as a politician he (Hackett) should watch that kind of talk, if his only objective is to get elected. But I have nothing to do with politics, and I am going to say something that is probably not very popular, but it is how I feel. Religion is wacky. How can otherwise reasonable people, honestly believe anything written in the bible? Do you really believe there is an invisible man in the sky that loves us so much that he will give us small illogical clues to his existance, but if we don’t believe he will burn us alive for the rest of eternity. I think it is pretty obvious that people are scared of dying, and have made up the myth of heaven to make themselves feel better, most cultures do this.

In closing I should note that I overlooked that Hackett was comparing the religious right with Bin Laden. I thought he was equating them to the Taliban.

Equating them to Bin Laden and his ilk is wrong. I mean the religious right is bad but they aren’t that bad.

Thanks for the amendment, but the religious right isn’t anywhere close to being as bad as the Taliban. Not even clost. When they were around, they were THE most oppressive religious regime in the world. And any country that would harbor a guy like OBL after 9/11 is just as bad as the man himself. I’m sorry, but the comparison is still nowhere close to apt because the Taliban IS like Bin Laden and his ilk.

But, to ME the biggest threat to democracy is the religious right. They seem to think their job in life is passing laws to stop other people from doing things THEY don’t want to do.

I disagree with the first part, but definitely agree with the second part. The religious right loves democracy because it affords them the opportunity to do exactly what you say they’re doing. But trust me, I understand the fear. However, I think diversity of opinion in this country is what makes us a great democracy. Look around the world. All democracies have a “religious right” component to them…some more effective and pervasive than others. And by the way, I think they’ll probably always will. But it’s up to liberals to keep working vigorously for more freedoms for the individual. Obviously, we can never let that fire die out.

But let me ask you something rob. Do you think it’s more effective to get those freedoms by calling the religious right “wackos” or by listening to their views, respecting their opinion and attempting to explain how liberalism is actually more in line with the teachings of Jesus? Obviously, I certainly think it’s the latter.

Not to mention once my Grandma got old and a little senile MANY “religious� groups started bilking her out of her money. The whole thing looks like a scam to me.

Well, people who would willing bilk somebody out of their money are obviously not following the teachings of Jesus. They’re crooks and scammers. But that doesn’t mean the entire religious right is like that. In fact, the vast majority aren’t like that.

But I do agree with the death penalty issue. That doesn’t make any sense to me. But hating anybody who isn’t in their sect? Well, that’s certainly a very clumsy generalization.

Things the religious right try to do off the top of my head:

Deny evolution
Stem cell research
Ban books from libraries
Prayer in school
Discrimination against gays
Discrimination against women
Dry counties
Sex education
TV Censorship (Can their TV’s change channels ?)
Terri Schiavo
Drug regulation (wasting 50B/year w/no results)
General hate towards anyone not in their sect
Environmental destruction
Pro death penalty (how is this possible?!?)
Fear and loathing of anything remotely sexual

This list took about 5 minutes to come up with. How can one group get it wrong on every issue?

Not to mention once my Grandma got old and a little senile MANY “religious” groups started bilking her out of her money. The whole thing looks like a scam to me.