Time to Stop Running the Mohammad Cartoons–PART TWO
By Alan Stewart Carl | Related entries in NewsYesterday I wrote that publications should stop running the Mohammad cartoons. This was met with a lot of disagreement both here at Donklephant and elsewhere. The arguments were strong and it was enough to make me question the wisdom of my position. But after more thought, I simply can’t change my mind. Although I clearly need to clarify.
I’ve done so over at Maverick Views.
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February 9th, 2006 at 12:26 pm
What ARE “the truly effective ways to combat radical Islam”?
In all seriousness, I think that’s an excellent point, and it is the question of the century. Our problems in the Middle East are growing and spreading all over the globe. It seems like this religious group (and their clash with pretty much all other religions) is at the heart of these problems: terrorism, Iraq, Iran, Israel, etc. I think it might be useful to start a dialogue about how we deal with this issue (or, how our government should deal with this issue).
February 9th, 2006 at 1:35 pm
A very good post Alan.
How are we going to get this message across in a direct and consise way without offending anyone to the point of violent reprisal? It seems most “moderate moslems” refuse to stand up with the west, and instead offer the apoligies to terrorists, and say that America and Isreal are the root causes, and that Mohammad or the Koran have absolutely nothing to do with terror; that the simple association of Islam with terrorism is an affront to their religion.
CAIR (the Council of Angry Islamic Radicals) condemns the president simply for using the term “islamofascism.” Too many liberals will refuse to call a spade a spade, as the mayor Livingstons of the world have shown their readiness to assume dhimmi status.
The rabid dog is breaking into our house, I just think maybe its a good idea to beat him with the stick now until he shuts up, before he gets into your bedroom and eats your children. By that time he will have tasted blood and the only way to stop him would be a shotgun blast to the face.
February 9th, 2006 at 3:28 pm
What ARE “the truly effective ways to combat radical Islam�?
We could try to convert them to Christianity.
February 9th, 2006 at 3:43 pm
Oh, you so funny Dos! Not to prematurely poo-poo anyone’s suggestions, but I’m pretty sure they wouldn’t like that. But, hey, it’s just brainstorm time, so we’ll leave that open to discussion.
February 9th, 2006 at 3:45 pm
Would any of this have any relevancy if it were not for oil?
February 9th, 2006 at 3:53 pm
“clearly an inferior culture”? While I have no suggestion where to begin mending relations with the Islamic world, I suppose your matter-of-fact attitude toward “Western superiority” over the Islamic culture would be a good place to start.
As for the cartoons, I don’t know if I’m alone here, but something about the entire story seems disjointed, as if there are some crucial elements missing. All I can gather from the news is this: A newspaper in Denmark several weeks ago published some political cartoons depicting Muhammad. Other European papers followed in the following weeks. Some top Islamic clerics(?) travelled around the Middle East showing the “blasphemous” cartoons to the heads of Islamic universities (and perhaps others). Cut to riots and violence. Do I have this right?
Doesn’t it seem strange to anyone else? Surely there is no shortage of incendiary opinions of Islam printed in papers around the world everyday — why now? why this?
February 9th, 2006 at 3:56 pm
I thought it was stroke of genius — the kind of idea that Jesus might have had. (DosPeros quietly rubs his WWJD braclet).
February 9th, 2006 at 4:23 pm
Meghan: ” A newspaper in Denmark several weeks ago published some political cartoons depicting Muhammad”
Several MONTHS ago, actually. Back in September.
gary: “Would any of this have any relevancy if it were not for oil?”
Yes it would. The Muslim immigrants in Europe have practically nothing to do with oil. The Isreal mess is only tangentially related to oil. Embassies in Lebanon have little to do with oil.
February 9th, 2006 at 5:08 pm
There is really only one way I can think of to deal with the issue of radical Islam. Make it irrelevant. Islam’s power would be a fraction of what it is today if it didn’t have the support of oil.
There’s one problem. By the time Bush supposedly gets us mostly independant of Middle Eastern oil in 2025, many of the countries we’d be getting our oil from will have run out of oil completely. Most of the non-Middle Eastern sources of oil are running out much faster than the Middle East is.
So basically, we get screwed over by radical Islam for the next 80 years until the oil runs dry. And we hope to god we keep the nukes out of their hands.
February 9th, 2006 at 5:49 pm
I want to make it very clear that I said RADICAL Islam is an inferior culture, not Islam per-se. That’s an important clarifier. I think we can all agree that Nazism is an inferior culture, but that doesn’t mean we think German culture on the whole is inferior.
As for mending relations, I don’t think you can mend relations with people who want to kill you because you ran a cartoon they find offensive. We need something a little more direct than “mending.” We need to change, as they say, hearts and minds so fewer and fewer Muslims turn to radical Islam. I don’t know how we get there. But it’s not through cartoons.
February 9th, 2006 at 6:41 pm
Tom: First off everything has to do with oil. The immigrants in Europe live in an electrical based culture, the Israelis (A before E) and Lebanese also are dependent on electricity. As you probably already know electricity is mostly oil dependent: Not to mention all the other oil dependencies of Western Civilization. (coming to you shortly, the entire world’s dependence on oil) The Islamic peoples have been pincering Europe for hundreds of years. Without oil they would have trouble lighting Denmark’s flag on fire. Without oil we would not even know they did it. Without oil I would probably be freezing my butt off instead of answering a neophyte on international affairs on my oil dependent computer.
February 9th, 2006 at 7:19 pm
The “hearts and minds” argument always seemed tenuous to me at best; that we should be more docile and acquiescent towards the angry muslim community as a whole, in order show off our “cultural superiority” and recruit or convert young people away from the clutches of extremism.
It sounds like I am reading H. G. Wells’ The Time Machine, where the Eloi, who in their utopian paradise, plant flowers for the Morlocks, in the hope that if they would only come out of the dark, they would stop eating the Eloi. We know how that story ends.
February 9th, 2006 at 9:21 pm
Jimmy, nice literary reference. I probably shouldn’t have used “hearts and minds” as it is too overused and too easy to interpret many different ways.
I hardly mean give them flowers. Frankly, I don’t know how to get it done. But I’m pretty sure the way to stop radical Islam is to stop people from becoming radical Muslims. I don’t think appeasement is the answer. Europe has tried that for decades and it didn’t work. But assimilation into Western culture could work. After all, American Muslims are far more moderate than Muslims in just about every other nation. Sure, we have our radicals, but not in the same high percentages.
Assimilation is not appeasement at all. It’s something a lot more forceful. I just don’t really know how to go about it. Any ideas? Other than converting them all to Christianity, which I believe has been tried on several occassions with no great success?
February 9th, 2006 at 10:40 pm
“First off everything has to do with oil.”
I guess if you assert that everything has to do with oil, then it does follow that this has to do with oil. But not everything has MUCH to do with oil, and this is one of those things. If these people were in countries that didn’t have oil, they’d still be pissed. The ones in many countries that don’t have oil are pissed. Hell, the ones in EUROPE are pissed.
“As you probably already know electricity is mostly oil dependent:”
Well this is flatly wrong. Oil isn’t used much for electricity, because of the prohibitive cost. Globally, it makes up only 6.9% (see page 26 of first link). Here in the US, for instance, oil makes up a paltry 2%.
http://www.iea.org/dbtw-wpd/Textbase/nppdf/free/2005/key2005.pdf
http://www.solcomhouse.com/electricity.htm (For US 2% figure)
To be fair, oil makes up 40% of the world’s TOTAL primary energy supply, which includes oil for transportation fuel, and for home heating. (see page 9 of first link). I’d rather be right on the facts than on spelling.
February 9th, 2006 at 10:46 pm
Here’s some good Islamic News: Orhan Pamuk will not be tried for violating Article 301 of the Turkish penal code for denigration of “Turkishness.”
Here is the link: http://tls.timesonline.co.uk/printFriendly/0,,2180-23191-2020182-23191,00.html
This is progress.
February 9th, 2006 at 11:24 pm
I agree, and the reason why it has worked in the USA but not so much Europe is because we take a more disciplined approach, our culture demands more from our immigrants than the Europeans do. (we are also lucky that our neighbors are not part of the Umma)
The uproar over these cartoons may be a good opportunity to passively resist Muslim rage; we don’t really have to do anything except say: “sorry, the media can do what it wants here…if you don’t like it thats tough!” Kind of like the way you deal with a kid throwing a temper-tantrum, and in this case you don’t even need to spank him yet!
Since most raging muslims will not ever live in the west, there’s no way to force them to accept our values over there. Iraq and Afghanistan look promising; perhaps the majority of young people there will remember how terrorists beseiged them, and how noble the American soldiers defended them.
None-the-less, we need to replace terrorist-supporting regimes with terrorist-persecuting ones, and enable the secular muslims (if they exist) to have the political voice that has been denied them by the guys with the guns (i.e. terrorists & tyrants), if there is any hope to win this culture war.
February 27th, 2006 at 5:40 pm
Islam DOES NOT treat its women meanly. I am proudly a muslim woman, born and raised Muslim AND in America. And i can tell you, there is no such thing as abusing women. It is condemned. do christian men abuse women? Yes some do. Do Jewish men abuse women? yes, some do. Do muslims? Yes SOME do, like anyone else. But that sooo does not mean that EVERY muslim abuses women! So “Jimmy the Dhimmi” please crack open your history book and read the article about islam. i think you’ll find more good then bad.
P.S. Women choose to wear the veil. They are not forced or abused to wear it, even though it is obligatory. I have an aunt and plenty of muslim friends who don’t. when i started, i chose to. in fact, my family was trying to discourage me, saying i was too young.
February 27th, 2006 at 6:51 pm
P.S. it’s CAIR- Council of American Islamic Relations