Comparing The Canadian School System To India’s
By Justin Gardner | Related entries in Blogging, EducationA 10 year old read the book Freakonomics and emailed author Steven Levitt with a correction. Needless to say, Levitt posted it on his blog, and since they get far more traffic than we do, I’m reprinting the email in full.
From the Freakonomics blog:
Hello. I am Rohan Patel, I am 10 years old. Your book was amazing! I loved it, but I found one mistake in it. In the chapter “What Makes A Perfect Parent?� it says that changing schools does not have an impact on the child. This is untrue, as i moved from Canada to India. In India the school system is much harder, when I came here I was way behind. I am emailing my friends and they are behind me, what they learn is very different from what I learn. So changing schools makes a huge impact on the child, I myself am an example of this.sincerely,
rohan
I wonder what an American kid would say if they went to India? Something tells me they’d be even farther behind.
Maybe that’s why all of our tech jobs are being outsourced to India. I know for a fact that many tech companies in this country are outsourcing work to India because they can do it just as good for 1/10th the price. And when you’re talking about a technology startup, cost is ALWAYS an issue. Trust me, I work for one and you want to be as frugal as possible.
In any event, an interesting look at the possible link between education and outsourcing, no?
This entry was posted on Tuesday, March 21st, 2006 and is filed under Blogging, Education. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.
March 22nd, 2006 at 2:12 am
In 1990, I moved from Ontario to Virginia in the middle of the school year (5th grade). Compared to Ontario, my class in Virginia was much further ahead in math, a little further behind in English, and about equal in science.
March 22nd, 2006 at 2:43 am
Interesting. So a decade and a half ago we may have been ahead of the US public school system. Good to know.
March 22nd, 2006 at 3:01 am
10 year old Rohan makes an interesting point, moving around within the same system might no impact the child, but if you move to different school systems, there can be an impact.
I would know this because I have been to 7 different schools and four different school systems (3 Indian systems & GCSE). Wow! Now I feel very confused!
March 22nd, 2006 at 3:19 am
Haha, even though I’ve been through the public and private systems here in the US, I still think this comment by a friggin 10 year old has validity.
Amazing.
March 22nd, 2006 at 7:27 am
I went to French schools for 2 through 4th grades. There was a great deal more slapping of faces in French school. The food was better. (Quel surprise.) There was more memorization. And they were ruthlessly hierarchical. We were tested every 30 days and ranked within the class. In French schools I was number one in the class. In American schools I was a discipline problem, bored, and ended up dropping out after 10th grade.
March 22nd, 2006 at 9:14 am
I used to volunteer teaching science at a rural elementary school in Karnataka, which is where Bangalore is the state capitol. I am simply amazed at how the kids there grow up with absolutely nothing, yet are so enthusiastic about school. Kids learn their multiplication tables in 1st grade! and they go up to the number 20! (I only learned 1-12 starting in the 3rd grade) Most schools in India teach 3 languages, beginning in kindergarden.
We could learn a lot from them, if only we abandon our obsession with “self-esteem” and our fear that instilling a sense of academic competitiveness will hurt the feelings of some of our students who lag behind. A tuition-voucher system is a step in the right direction.
March 22nd, 2006 at 1:29 pm
Jimmy, talking about multiplication tables, my wife student teaches 4th graders at a public school in Utah, and I was surprised to learn that kids in 4th grade were just starting to learn multiplication tables!!
You make an excellent point—why deprive kids of what they can learn, especially at the age when they can learn the most! And I have always wondered why there is no healthy competition in American public school systems, when it comes to education, while competition is abundant in everything else.
March 22nd, 2006 at 1:40 pm
I think this is what will ultimately sink us. We are such a language-phobic society, and it’ll hurt us in the long run.
March 22nd, 2006 at 2:05 pm
because they can do it just as good
Except for when they can’t.
Sorry, Justin–the 1/10th of the price may very well be true, but the other part is way too blanket from my perspective, and I have worked on technical training projects for a number of very large technology and consulting companies. My husband, an engineer and technology/solutions architect for an instantly recognizable, global company has some insights into that, as well. Let’s just say his experience makes his opinions on that topic even more strong than mine. Please keep in mind that “programming” is not like what it was 20-30 years ago. You don’t have to be all that technically strong to be a “cookbook” programmer. That’s what a lot of this outsourcing is; it doesn’t require the best and the brightest (cheapest–well, that’s a different story). That’s not to put down Indian workers, or students. But don’t assume it’s been outsourced there because we don’t have capable people here. That’s just wrong.
As for the language issue–it’s already hurting us. More alarming, if we were to put out our very best efforts starting this minute, it would still take us many, many years to even begin to catch up. The sad thing is that there is an uptick in demand for language training and growing support for providing it earlier, not enough current, competent foreign language teachers to fill the demand. Talk about having to start a race from way behind the, well, starting line!
March 22nd, 2006 at 2:13 pm
“The sad this is that even though ..”
Final thought: I don’t care what my kid wants to be (in the sense that it’s his choice and I’m not a snob in that way), but I expect him to emerge into adulthood with at least some sort of knowledge of a couple of languages other than English.
He started Spanish this year–in kindergarten.
March 22nd, 2006 at 3:10 pm
Kids can learn calculus by 14 if they’re motivated. The problem, the current paradigm is: IN THIS YEAR YOU WILL LEARN THIS, even if you already know it.
We need to allow kids to meet their potential by giving them goals to work toward that aren’t dictated by a calendar. This is one reason home-schooling is becaming more and more prevalent.
March 22nd, 2006 at 3:14 pm
Most schools in India teach 3 languages, beginning in kindergarden.
I think this is what will ultimately sink us. We are such a language-phobic society, and it’ll hurt us in the long run.
Nah. Everyone else learns English as one of their languages.
In fact, multiple languages are detrimental, esp for younger kids, to the extent it prevents them from learning proper English, which they need to learn anything else.
March 22nd, 2006 at 3:21 pm
The only reason that 3 languages are tought to grade schoolers in India is because there are so many damn languages!! There are 22 official languages, plus hundreds of dialects. Most schools teach the “international language”(English), the National language (Hindi) and the local language. My point is that kids can handle intense ciriculum if they are taught to value education, not as an obligatory duty or entitlement, but rather as a gift for their own well being.
The downside to Indian education (common amongst other Asian countries as well), is that there is little emphasis on creative writing and humanities. Literature and art are often taught from a historical or technical standpoint, but I think that is due to more of a difference in overall culture than a lack of time or resources.
On the other hand, at least you don’t find many Indians or Chinese majoring in “Ethnic-Sepratist Studies” or “Lesbians in Journalsim.” as you might see throughout American universities.
March 23rd, 2006 at 5:17 am
Most schools in India teach 3 languages, beginning in kindergarden.
Not always true. There are 2 things that come into play.
1. To be fair, most school end up teaching only around 2 (or in some cases just 1) language because, kids usually know one langauge pretty well before they enter school. Their mother tounge. And most parents take it upon them to make sure that their kids are capable of handling their mother tounge.
2. It depends on which part of India you are actually talking about. Most of the commnets seem to come from people experienced with South India, If you are in new delhi the only reason you will end up learning a third lanaguage would be because “its a fad” and you would do it at age 16 and not in kindergarden, and in all probably it would be an expensive language course for french. However down south, the situation is much more different, Even semi-litterate people are capable of handling upto 5 local languages and can even manage some form of english too.
March 27th, 2006 at 3:19 pm
Interesting series of posts — curious to note that while many Asian and European school systems out-pace the US in elementary education, few do so in secondary (and virtually none at the graduate level). This doesn’t mean our primary public school systems in the US are blameless - I live in California, where we have schools in the high-90th percentiles and others in the low single digits within 10 minutes of each other. Re language, remember that the vast majority of all US residents will never, ever, meet a person who doesn’t speak English unless they live on the Mexican border. Thank the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans for this, not the failure of the educational system. Good posts!
July 25th, 2006 at 12:06 am
I have three children who have studied for some timein indian system. I feel that while indian sytem is good for basic foundation ,later part of middle school and highschool should be completed in the u.s. Indian education is much about memorization and regurgitation. It lacks self motivation as parents hound the child to study, hence studying becomes a chore and is no more a passion. It has no considerationfor the childs interest but usually conforms to the parentsgoals for the child. it lacks ingenuity creativity and does not allow the child to express distinctiveness as a individual who can think or reason. indian system is too much of spoon feeding, while american sytem is teaching the child to fend for them selves. Indian system is good basis to build up on with american one.
July 28th, 2006 at 2:21 am
Thousand odds crossed swords with India. Multi party democracy, countless castes, regional variations. Despite all this it is moving today. The foundation for this was laid in the fifties when IITs and IIMs were started.
Good if it is going to sleep in the old glory. To move and take 40 percents illiterates forward a national mission with the involvement of all stakeholders are required.
August 1st, 2006 at 10:06 pm
thanks for sharing
September 12th, 2006 at 7:39 pm
um….i have been to 4 schools and even if it is within the same system it still makes an impact on the child! because no kid can understand everything in school and needs someone to explain and talk to! this takes time when u go to a new school
November 9th, 2006 at 9:42 am
Interesting analyses. As a school teacher from Bangalore, I think there is one significant difference. Our kids can’t expect dole if they are unemployed. With our mind boggling population, each child has to grab the opportunities that present themselves. School is the first opportunity to cling on to and make the most of. Education is never taken for granted.
July 1st, 2008 at 8:20 am
We moved to Ontario 2 years ago from the US. Even with two of my kids skipping a grade, they are not learning as much as their friends in the US; nor are there are high of expectations from the teachers here as in the US. Also, can someone explain to me how in the US, 90-100 = A, 80-90=B, etc., and in Canada, 80-100=A? This grading scale makes it appear to be much easier to get an A.