But Justin, this is your site. You set the agenda, and I react to it, trying in my own way to make it something that resembles “centrist.� We should trade for a week: You exclusively go after the left, and I’ll go after the right.

See, I see this as our site, not simply mine. In this way, the agenda is set by us all. We point out weaknesses and strengths of both political ideologies, and highlight places where we can agree. It’s a messy process, but one worth exploring I think since we represent the majority of politcal thought in this country, not the fringe blogosphere. And I believe, over time, the voices balance each other out and the conversation is richer because both sides talk in an atmosphere of openness.

I mean, do you really think the bloggers who post here would do so if they didn’t feel it was a place where centrist thought was appreciated and fostered? Look around you dude, this IS a centrist site and we have some of the best centrist bloggers contributing. That doesn’t happen because it’s run by a hypocrite.

To the whole “gotcha” thing, I don’t think it has to be a baited trap. When you go through my previous posts in ONE category, try to find some sort of “partisan” ratio and then attempt to paint me as some sort of hypocrite, I don’t appreciate it. And you weren’t even correct. Also, it’s not up to me to prove your false conclusions wrong. I provided you with names…you know how to search…so go to it if you’re interested. Me, I’m not. I think it’s pointless.

By the way, weren’t we talking about Ben Domenech’s partisan hackish leanings, his plagiarism and his attempts to smear the left to make himself look better post-scandal? And I think that after he submitted that second apology, you should really stop calling me out on this since he pretty much admitted his first apology was crap.

Yup. I got into it with both you and Cal over that one, I remember.

And I’m never sure what rules we’re playing by. You say I play “gotcha.” What do you mean? To me, “gotcha” is setting a trap. This is just a matter of counting the record. That’s a legitimate way to illustrate a point. I didn’t urge you to post one way or another. If I’ve counted 14-to-1 wrong, in that category, not counting your posts that cut both ways, show me!

Personally, I would have loved to have seen Dennis Kucinich as the nominee. THAT would have been a national debate. I also would have liked to have seen him as president — as long as there was a “rewind” button we could hit and start over again with a different outcome after things got as bad as I think they would have with him at the helm.

As far as a ratio goes, well, I’m a liberal and I’m going to see more right-wing voices as potentially hackish. That’s understandable I think.

Yes, of course it is. So the question is, do you want your site to be liveral or centrist? And if the latter, how does that happen?

Kennedy, even though you were WRONG

Oh yeah, I called out Robert Kennedy too on his Kartina comments and it was even under the partisan hacks section! Is that what you were talking about Phillip?

Kennedy, even though you were WRONG :)

To read this, then, you’d think there was a ratio of something like 14-1. Calling attention to the left’s excesses seems to me to balance that, and it is not at all the same thing as saying anyone else’s hands are clean.

Cal, please don’t play “gotcha” with me. It’s tiring. And honestly, you’re pointing out an inconsistency that you yourself take part in, and are a bigger offender than I ever have been on this site. But as far as my “balance” goes, I’ve also called voices on the left out like Dean, Durbin, Galloway, Hackett, Kerry and more that I can’t remember right off the top of my head. How many on the right have you called out? Frankly, I don’t care, but if you’re gonna do the gotcha thing, I’d look at your own posting history first before you call me out on something like that again.

As far as a ratio goes, well, I’m a liberal and I’m going to see more right-wing voices as potentially hackish. That’s understandable I think. But that doesn’t mean that sites like Daily Kos represent mainstream liberal thought. Otherwise, Howard Dean or Dennis Kucinich would have been going up against Bush in 2004.

By the way, that apology from Ben you linked to was great. I wish that he had done that in the first place, but even still…he’s definitely gained some of my respect back.

I hope we are supposed to speak our minds on whatever topic with real thoughts. I don’t think we are supposed to win … or lose. My hope is that when I speak freely and openly that has an impact. Sometimes that impact might be agreement from one or more commentors. More often than not I am forced to look at my beliefs and often modify them to some extent.You have made me think hard sometimes … so has Justin .. ASC and MR. I am not so sure that I want to pulled anywhere in particular …. I think that the xleft and xright have screamed loud enough to show that as an empty goal …. but I think that reasonable debate, and more importantly, reasonable consideration of other views might cause a melding process to begin … and hopefully bring a stronger center view to the surface.

I posted a comment some time back inwhich I compared the current state of political norm to the geometry of a bell curve superimposed over … well, a bell … meaning that the outer edges of the bell are much smaller in capacity and the rise to the apex is more dense (more centrists exist than xlefts or xrights) In terms of sounding a bell, the outer fringes are louder and harsher than the middle tones where there is more density. We are due for softer tones in America … we just have to teach ourselves how to hit the center more often … that requires left and right.

An analogy for blogs .. from a dedicated fan.

This is not a symptom of “the left�, this is a symptom of extremism. You can find it on BOTH sides of the aisle, so please…for honesty’s sake…let’s quit acting as if the right side of the blogosphere’s hands are clean too.

Well, it seems to be your job to point out the hypocrisies and excesses of the right, so I’ll take the same role for the left. Your initial reaction to the Domenech thing was to mock him for feeling attacked.

Look at the “partisan hacks” tagline here. Your partisan hacks, leaving aside posts attacking the thing generally, are:

Ben Domenech (twice)
Dean Esmay
Ann Coulter (twice)
Bill O’Reilly
Tucker Carlson
William Kristol (twice)
Bill Bennett
Robert Novak (twice)
John Gibson of Fox News
Power Line, conservative/GOP blog

All on the right: on the left:

Moveon.org

To read this, then, you’d think there was a ratio of something like 14-1. Calling attention to the left’s excesses seems to me to balance that, and it is not at all the same thing as saying anyone else’s hands are clean.

Yes, I agree. In certain ways it bears a similarity to the Jeff Gannon case (or whatever the hell his real name turned out to be). First the lefties got all over him because he did GAY PORN! It was a screaming green light for Internet fag-bashing. Then his questionable credentials came up, and suddenly the issue was a sober-sided concern for professionalism.

It wasn’t gay porn. He was a male escort. I see this as a big difference. One is legal, the other is decidedly illegal.

Same here: two issues. The legitimate disqualifying charge of plagiarism came second. First came the attempt to bury the man in as much harrassment and verbal feces as the organized left could pile on him. Which included attempts to chill him into silence by real or veiled threats to his life and his loved ones.

Ann Coulter printed somebody’s home address and phone number several months back and that woman got death threats, etc. This is not a symptom of “the left”, this is a symptom of extremism. You can find it on BOTH sides of the aisle, so please…for honesty’s sake…let’s quit acting as if the right side of the blogosphere’s hands are clean too. They’re not. I mean, this issue is exactly why I created our site in the first place. I’m sick of this type of nonsense from BOTH sides.

And by the way, how many of you believe that Ben would have said he had gotten death threats, etc., if this plagiarism thing hadn’t came up?

I think he knows, as do most high profile political commentators, that when you get to a certain level the crazies start coming out of the woodwork. Ultimately you just have to live your life. And personally, I’d like to see these threats so Ben can expose THE people who wrote them. Let’s discredit the individuals, not an entire side of the debate. That’s why I have a problem with Ben’s accusations, because it’s wide and broad and he knows exactly what he’s doing.

Justin says, “oh, well, just ignore that; it’s only a small minority of leftists who did that.� But only a small minority of Muslims flew jetliners into buildings on 9/11. Doesn’t mean Islam doesn’t have a problem. And it doesn’t mean we don’t have a problem with them.

Sure, as you could point to comments on the right from the LGF’s, the Michael Savages and the Ann Coulters of the world and paint the entire right as such.

But hey, let the right and left side of the blogosphere continue to discredit themselves with their slander and venom. The middle will be waiting to fill the credibility void that they leave.

The hate mail that I have received since the launch of this blog has been overwhelmingly profane and violent. My family has been threatened; my friends have been deluged; my phone has been prank called. The most recent email that showed up while writing this post talked about how the author would like to hack off my head, and wishes my mother had aborted me.

Yeah, well, he also said he got permission from P.J. O’Rourke to use one of his pieces.

That is the best description that I can give as evidence that every site is going to need “blog police� to retain focus. This has the potential to negate the blogoshere as a com-tool in the ‘06 elections.

Could be.

I disagree, Justin, there was a definitive smear campaign. I think that the bloogers who were offended by the plagairism spoke to that topic with economic clarity regarding the act itself.

Yes, I agree. In certain ways it bears a similarity to the Jeff Gannon case (or whatever the hell his real name turned out to be). First the lefties got all over him because he did GAY PORN! It was a screaming green light for Internet fag-bashing. Then his questionable credentials came up, and suddenly the issue was a sober-sided concern for professionalism.

Same here: two issues. The legitimate disqualifying charge of plagiarism came second. First came the attempt to bury the man in as much harrassment and verbal feces as the organized left could pile on him. Which included attempts to chill him into silence by real or veiled threats to his life and his loved ones.

Justin says, “oh, well, just ignore that; it’s only a small minority of leftists who did that.” But only a small minority of Muslims flew jetliners into buildings on 9/11. Doesn’t mean Islam doesn’t have a problem. And it doesn’t mean we don’t have a problem with them.

Not to harp on Justin, but when I bring up Kos, Atrios, Talkingpoints, etc., — the ones who rallied the gang-tackle on Domenech — he urges me to turn away from them as not representative of the loyal opposition in America. Yet when I read the listings of most popular blogs, there they are (along with “Boing Boing”) as the top leftward sites. Now, blogs are not the same as reality, but there is a rough overlay and you have to think, if their bloated numbers don’t represent the mainstream of the oipposition, they do represent the mainstream of … something. What else is it?

I disagree, Justin, there was a definitive smear campaign. I think that the bloogers who were offended by the plagairism spoke to that topic with economic clarity regarding the act itself. The rest of it had little to do with the issue at hand. Easily 90%+ of the stuff that I reas resembled a catatonic crowd in the big city screaming for the guy on the hi-rise ledge to …….. jump, jump, please jump!

That is the best description that I can give as evidence that every site is going to need “blog police” to retain focus. This has the potential to negate the blogoshere as a com-tool in the ‘06 elections.

I’ll admit though, my background is in business rather than journalism (where I have no experience). Am I just looking at this wrong?

Yes.

No, really it’s an understandable position, but it’s not just a smear job by the left. They wouldn’t be able to really touch Ben if he had been honest. But he wasn’t. Sure, the left would have called him a moron, but they wouldn’t have been able to do anything about it unless Ben did something to be found out.

Thanks for thoughts.