Comments on: Gee, We Might Want To Use That Filibuster Thing http://donklephant.com/2006/04/06/gee-we-might-want-to-use-that-filibuster-thing/ Big Teeth. Huge Ass. Surprisingly Reasonable. Sun, 22 Nov 2009 10:53:41 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: The Constructivist http://donklephant.com/2006/04/06/gee-we-might-want-to-use-that-filibuster-thing/comment-page-1/#comment-11733 The Constructivist Sat, 08 Apr 2006 09:59:01 +0000 http://donklephant.com/?p=2079#comment-11733 I agree that raising legal sanctions on those who import and exploit immigrant labor, creating paths to legal status and citizenship, opening up more opportunities for legal immigration, and making our border security more effective and efficient are necessary elements of a solution. I propose one short-term element and one long-term solution, as well. For the short term, we should seek to rebalance our labor laws away from their extreme pro-management tilt. By recognizing the right to organize as protected under the First Amendment, we give workers a tool to negotiate terms and conditions of employment on their own, without the need for government interference except to resolve disputes that labor and management can't settle on their own. In essence, we use workers as a check on management's desire for cheap labor, which would serve to reduce "pull" factors and also raise wages for all low-skill workers. My more radical solution is to issue a new "world-wide welcome" (see the opening of Emma Lazarus's "The New Colossus") and invite nation-states around the world to hold referenda on whether they should petition the US Congress for entry into the union following principles laid out in Article Four, Section III of the US Constitution. We seem to have figured out how to handle interstate commerce and internal migrations, so why not consider expanding our borders (through democratic, not imperialist means, I hasten to add--this is anot a call for annexation!) rather than closing them? I agree that raising legal sanctions on those who import and exploit immigrant labor, creating paths to legal status and citizenship, opening up more opportunities for legal immigration, and making our border security more effective and efficient are necessary elements of a solution. I propose one short-term element and one long-term solution, as well. For the short term, we should seek to rebalance our labor laws away from their extreme pro-management tilt. By recognizing the right to organize as protected under the First Amendment, we give workers a tool to negotiate terms and conditions of employment on their own, without the need for government interference except to resolve disputes that labor and management can’t settle on their own. In essence, we use workers as a check on management’s desire for cheap labor, which would serve to reduce “pull” factors and also raise wages for all low-skill workers.

My more radical solution is to issue a new “world-wide welcome” (see the opening of Emma Lazarus’s “The New Colossus”) and invite nation-states around the world to hold referenda on whether they should petition the US Congress for entry into the union following principles laid out in Article Four, Section III of the US Constitution. We seem to have figured out how to handle interstate commerce and internal migrations, so why not consider expanding our borders (through democratic, not imperialist means, I hasten to add–this is anot a call for annexation!) rather than closing them?

]]> By: Meredith http://donklephant.com/2006/04/06/gee-we-might-want-to-use-that-filibuster-thing/comment-page-1/#comment-11500 Meredith Thu, 06 Apr 2006 21:21:48 +0000 http://donklephant.com/?p=2079#comment-11500 I definitely agree that we need to strengthen our borders and solve the problem of the incoming illegals before we get to the illegals that are already here. Otherwise, while we are chasing them down, more and more people will continue to pour in. I also hearily agree that we need to put a stop to employers who hire illegals for cheap. As far as border security is concerned, how hard is it to hire thousands of men and station them closer together along the borders. Maybe drum up a more improved processing system, update the computers, whatever. It doesn't seem like we need to build a huge wall or do anything else radical. I think that if our borders are not secure, that is our government's fault, and they need to make it more of a priority. As far as people who are already here, I'm just not sure how we're going to "find them" and kick them out. Isn't that the law now? It seems to me that the failings of our immigration laws are due to mostly human error, which will still be present no matter what new laws you enact. Let's just let people become legal, in a way that doesn't devastate our economy. Isn't it really about money anyway? I definitely agree that we need to strengthen our borders and solve the problem of the incoming illegals before we get to the illegals that are already here. Otherwise, while we are chasing them down, more and more people will continue to pour in. I also hearily agree that we need to put a stop to employers who hire illegals for cheap. As far as border security is concerned, how hard is it to hire thousands of men and station them closer together along the borders. Maybe drum up a more improved processing system, update the computers, whatever. It doesn’t seem like we need to build a huge wall or do anything else radical. I think that if our borders are not secure, that is our government’s fault, and they need to make it more of a priority.

As far as people who are already here, I’m just not sure how we’re going to “find them” and kick them out. Isn’t that the law now? It seems to me that the failings of our immigration laws are due to mostly human error, which will still be present no matter what new laws you enact. Let’s just let people become legal, in a way that doesn’t devastate our economy. Isn’t it really about money anyway?

]]> By: nykrindc http://donklephant.com/2006/04/06/gee-we-might-want-to-use-that-filibuster-thing/comment-page-1/#comment-11498 nykrindc Thu, 06 Apr 2006 20:56:08 +0000 http://donklephant.com/?p=2079#comment-11498 I think you are focusing on the wrong part of the problem. The main problem with immigration, as it is for the drug trade, isn’t so much the supply of workers or drugs, rather the main problem is the demand. That is why our anti-drug effort has failed so miserably, because we have refused to address demand in our own country. Similarly, when it comes to immigration, they come because there are plenty of job opportunities for them here in the states, many people (including anti-immigrant activists) hire them to do jobs other Americans wouldn’t do at the price. For example, there was a documentary where a contractor, who rallied against immigrants and who wanted legislation punishing them and kicking them out of the country, actually hired them in his role as a contractor building model communities out west. When confronted, he saw no problem with “exploiting� illegal aliens, and somehow could not understand how it was that his hiring them made it possible for them to want to come into the country in the first place. So, to address the immigration problem we need to target everyone who employs illegal immigrants, from fast food chains to Wal-Mart levying fines appropriate to the offense. At the same time, we have to deal with those who are already here, and who are employed. To do so we need a process whereby they can attain legal status because the alternative is that they remain outside of the legal economy, and fail to integrate into our country leaving us in a similar position as Europe is in with its Muslim migrants, which as we saw earlier this year is a hotbed of extremism. The house bill fails in the most important aspects, mainly providing a way to process the immigrants already here. I think you are focusing on the wrong part of the problem. The main problem with immigration, as it is for the drug trade, isn’t so much the supply of workers or drugs, rather the main problem is the demand. That is why our anti-drug effort has failed so miserably, because we have refused to address demand in our own country. Similarly, when it comes to immigration, they come because there are plenty of job opportunities for them here in the states, many people (including anti-immigrant activists) hire them to do jobs other Americans wouldn’t do at the price. For example, there was a documentary where a contractor, who rallied against immigrants and who wanted legislation punishing them and kicking them out of the country, actually hired them in his role as a contractor building model communities out west. When confronted, he saw no problem with “exploiting� illegal aliens, and somehow could not understand how it was that his hiring them made it possible for them to want to come into the country in the first place. So, to address the immigration problem we need to target everyone who employs illegal immigrants, from fast food chains to Wal-Mart levying fines appropriate to the offense. At the same time, we have to deal with those who are already here, and who are employed. To do so we need a process whereby they can attain legal status because the alternative is that they remain outside of the legal economy, and fail to integrate into our country leaving us in a similar position as Europe is in with its Muslim migrants, which as we saw earlier this year is a hotbed of extremism. The house bill fails in the most important aspects, mainly providing a way to process the immigrants already here.

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