Comments on: Joe Klein: Partisan Hack? http://donklephant.com/2006/04/11/joe-klein-partisan-hack/ Big Teeth. Huge Ass. Surprisingly Reasonable. Sun, 08 Nov 2009 23:59:03 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Donklephant » Blog Archive » Joe Klein http://donklephant.com/2006/04/11/joe-klein-partisan-hack/comment-page-1/#comment-14450 Donklephant » Blog Archive » Joe Klein Wed, 19 Apr 2006 09:30:27 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2006/04/11/joe-klein-partisan-hack/#comment-14450 [...] He explains that quote that had us puzzled. He was misquoted, in some essential words, but not in his essential idea. In his recent account of a breakfast book party at the home of Tina Brown and Harry Evans, Eric Alterman misquoted me slightly but significantly. What I actually said was “the hate America tendency of the [Democratic Party’s] left wing” had made it harder for Democrats to challenge Republicans on foreign policy. [...] [...] He explains that quote that had us puzzled. He was misquoted, in some essential words, but not in his essential idea. In his recent account of a breakfast book party at the home of Tina Brown and Harry Evans, Eric Alterman misquoted me slightly but significantly. What I actually said was “the hate America tendency of the [Democratic Party’s] left wing” had made it harder for Democrats to challenge Republicans on foreign policy. [...]

]]> By: JP http://donklephant.com/2006/04/11/joe-klein-partisan-hack/comment-page-1/#comment-12478 JP Wed, 12 Apr 2006 06:02:24 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2006/04/11/joe-klein-partisan-hack/#comment-12478 DosPeros - I'd personally put Mike Malloy in that group, he's highly overstated most of the time just like Coulter. The only respect I can give the Klein comment is that I find my positions not nearly liberal enough for the Kos crowd, but I don't consider them the majority of Democrats. DosPeros – I’d personally put Mike Malloy in that group, he’s highly overstated most of the time just like Coulter. The only respect I can give the Klein comment is that I find my positions not nearly liberal enough for the Kos crowd, but I don’t consider them the majority of Democrats.

]]> By: Justin Gardner http://donklephant.com/2006/04/11/joe-klein-partisan-hack/comment-page-1/#comment-12470 Justin Gardner Wed, 12 Apr 2006 05:16:07 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2006/04/11/joe-klein-partisan-hack/#comment-12470 Haha, Potter Stewart I am not. And oh yes, are their hacks on the left... In the extremist crowd are voices like Michael Moore, Randi Rhodes, Mike Malloy...just to name a few. Those are the hacks that are more in the vein of the Coulters of the world. Then you have the brand of hacks like Paul Begala and James Carville, who will endlessly parrot talking points on the now defunct Crossfire. Klein, if he indeed believes what he said, belongs in this group. However, I don't know if he really believes that. And then, in the blogosphere, you have hacks on Daily Kos, Atrios, etc. By the way, these voices on the right and left can provide good information and make good points. I don't dispute this. And personally, I find that more good info comes from the left-wing noise machine, but I'm a liberal and agree with liberal policies more, so that follows. But to address your question of substance vs. tone, I think it really has to do with both substance and tone. On Donklephant, my creedo is make your point and make it well...with "well" encapsulating both tone and content. Just leave the rhetoric, invective and hacky talking points at home. In short, why have a fight when you can have a conversation? I realize we feel like we're more divided than ever, and I appreciate why people feel that way. But I do believe that most of these pundits/bloggers aren't really interested in finding the best ideas, they just want their side to win. And ultimately does that really help anybody? I don't think so. Haha, Potter Stewart I am not. And oh yes, are their hacks on the left…

In the extremist crowd are voices like Michael Moore, Randi Rhodes, Mike Malloy…just to name a few. Those are the hacks that are more in the vein of the Coulters of the world.

Then you have the brand of hacks like Paul Begala and James Carville, who will endlessly parrot talking points on the now defunct Crossfire. Klein, if he indeed believes what he said, belongs in this group. However, I don’t know if he really believes that.

And then, in the blogosphere, you have hacks on Daily Kos, Atrios, etc.

By the way, these voices on the right and left can provide good information and make good points. I don’t dispute this. And personally, I find that more good info comes from the left-wing noise machine, but I’m a liberal and agree with liberal policies more, so that follows.

But to address your question of substance vs. tone, I think it really has to do with both substance and tone. On Donklephant, my creedo is make your point and make it well…with “well” encapsulating both tone and content. Just leave the rhetoric, invective and hacky talking points at home.

In short, why have a fight when you can have a conversation? I realize we feel like we’re more divided than ever, and I appreciate why people feel that way. But I do believe that most of these pundits/bloggers aren’t really interested in finding the best ideas, they just want their side to win.

And ultimately does that really help anybody? I don’t think so.

]]> By: DosPeros http://donklephant.com/2006/04/11/joe-klein-partisan-hack/comment-page-1/#comment-12448 DosPeros Wed, 12 Apr 2006 02:55:19 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2006/04/11/joe-klein-partisan-hack/#comment-12448 JG -- Is there anyone on the liberal side that you would consider a "hack"? I'm asking because it seems like you see a lot of hackiness with those people who you disagree with and those people who you agree with are paragons of moderation and centrism. Does being a hack have to do with the substance of a persons arguments/beliefs or style/tone of its delivery? Or are you the Potter Stewart of political hackery -- you just know it when you see it? JG — Is there anyone on the liberal side that you would consider a “hack”? I’m asking because it seems like you see a lot of hackiness with those people who you disagree with and those people who you agree with are paragons of moderation and centrism. Does being a hack have to do with the substance of a persons arguments/beliefs or style/tone of its delivery? Or are you the Potter Stewart of political hackery — you just know it when you see it?

]]> By: Justin Gardner http://donklephant.com/2006/04/11/joe-klein-partisan-hack/comment-page-1/#comment-12415 Justin Gardner Wed, 12 Apr 2006 01:44:33 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2006/04/11/joe-klein-partisan-hack/#comment-12415 I certainly hope this was a joke and that Alterman is mischaracterizing it because this...<blockquote>Supported Afghanistan invasion, opposed Iraq but thinks we’re obligated to stay and finish the job. Encouraged students to serve in Teach for America and the Peace Corps.</blockquote> ...sounds exactly like me. I certainly hope this was a joke and that Alterman is mischaracterizing it because this…
Supported Afghanistan invasion, opposed Iraq but thinks we’re obligated to stay and finish the job. Encouraged students to serve in Teach for America and the Peace Corps.

…sounds exactly like me.

]]> By: Callimachus http://donklephant.com/2006/04/11/joe-klein-partisan-hack/comment-page-1/#comment-12373 Callimachus Tue, 11 Apr 2006 23:37:47 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2006/04/11/joe-klein-partisan-hack/#comment-12373 Whoops. Garbled that a bit. You get the idea. Whoops. Garbled that a bit. You get the idea.

]]> By: Callimachus http://donklephant.com/2006/04/11/joe-klein-partisan-hack/comment-page-1/#comment-12372 Callimachus Tue, 11 Apr 2006 23:37:19 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2006/04/11/joe-klein-partisan-hack/#comment-12372 He spoke here a couple weeks ago and seemed quite sane and fairly balanced. At least by my definition of those qualities. Supported Afghanistan invasion, opposed Iraq but thinks we're obligated to stay and finish the job. Encouraged students to serve in Teach for America and the Peace Corps. The core of those criticisms stems from a memo sent 30 years ago to then-President Jimmy Carter. The memo discussed how Carter could run a successful “permanent campaign,â€Â? advising him to wear cardigan sweaters when addressing the public and carry his own garment bag off Air Force One. It was form over function, and it’s been the name of the game in Washington, D.C., since. “The Bush administration has more interest in spinning the war rather than winning the war.â€Â? Doesn't seem to jibe with the quote here. He spoke here a couple weeks ago and seemed quite sane and fairly balanced. At least by my definition of those qualities. Supported Afghanistan invasion, opposed Iraq but thinks we’re obligated to stay and finish the job. Encouraged students to serve in Teach for America and the Peace Corps.

The core of those criticisms stems from a memo sent 30 years ago to then-President Jimmy Carter.

The memo discussed how Carter could run a successful “permanent campaign,� advising him to wear cardigan sweaters when addressing the public and carry his own garment bag off Air Force One. It was form over function, and it’s been the name of the game in Washington, D.C., since.

“The Bush administration has more interest in spinning the war rather than winning the war.�

Doesn’t seem to jibe with the quote here.

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