Comments on: How Far Should We Let the NSA Go? http://donklephant.com/2006/05/11/how-far-should-we-let-the-nsa-go/ Big Teeth. Huge Ass. Surprisingly Reasonable. Tue, 14 Feb 2012 14:03:13 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Dr. LeRoy A. Stone http://donklephant.com/2006/05/11/how-far-should-we-let-the-nsa-go/comment-page-1/#comment-53920 Dr. LeRoy A. Stone Sun, 23 Jul 2006 02:45:31 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2006/05/11/how-far-should-we-let-the-nsa-go/#comment-53920 For those interested in security clearance obtaining, the following information may be of some value. There has been developed a psychological type 'test' that very accurately predicts success/failure to be eventually granted high-level security clearance status for persons who are being (or plan to be) processed/adjudicated by the federal government regarding potential granting of such status. The Personnel Security Standards Psychological Questionnaire (PSSPQ)was developed by a very senior psychologist while he was the Chief Research Psychologist in the USA's then largest intelligence agency. Information regarding the PSSPQ and how to make arrangements to 'take' it can be found at: http://www.home.earthlink.net/~lastone2/psspq.html For those interested in security clearance obtaining, the following information may be of some value. There has been developed a psychological type ‘test’ that very accurately predicts success/failure to be eventually granted high-level security clearance status for persons who are being (or plan to be) processed/adjudicated by the federal government regarding potential granting of such status. The Personnel Security Standards Psychological Questionnaire (PSSPQ)was developed by a very senior psychologist while he was the Chief Research Psychologist in the USA’s then largest intelligence agency. Information regarding the PSSPQ and how to make arrangements to ‘take’ it can be found at:
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~lastone2/psspq.html

]]> By: GN http://donklephant.com/2006/05/11/how-far-should-we-let-the-nsa-go/comment-page-1/#comment-21096 GN Thu, 11 May 2006 23:15:36 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2006/05/11/how-far-should-we-let-the-nsa-go/#comment-21096 Justin Gardner and ASC ... it is not a matter of being paranoid. My prediction is that inside of (1) month this crap will be stopped. There will not be any issues about what the Republicans think or what the Democrats think ... the American public will quickly react to this news in the same fashion that they reacted to the ports debacle. JP - "Why wasn’t this information volunteered earlier this year when the first reports surfaced?" Because they decided that we didn't need to know! "Why were we only given part of the truth as an answer? " We were not given partial truth ... we were boldly lied to .... Bush went on TV and explained his program and said the following .."We are only cheking calls where one end is not on US soil." "Are people still willing to sacrifice all manner of personal liberty in exchange for security, after being continuously scared by the Bush administration regarding terror threats? " THat is a real question, and I think we will see the answer shortly ... and I think it will be ....Hell, NO! Of course, the other piece of business that will sideswipe the administration this week is a call from the Attorney General in Great Britain to "close GITMO". Justin Gardner and ASC … it is not a matter of being paranoid. My prediction is that inside of (1) month this crap will be stopped. There will not be any issues about what the Republicans think or what the Democrats think … the American public will quickly react to this news in the same fashion that they reacted to the ports debacle.

JP – “Why wasn’t this information volunteered earlier this year when the first reports surfaced?”
Because they decided that we didn’t need to know!

“Why were we only given part of the truth as an answer? ”
We were not given partial truth … we were boldly lied to …. Bush went on TV and explained his program and said the following ..”We are only cheking calls where one end is not on US soil.”

“Are people still willing to sacrifice all manner of personal liberty in exchange for security, after being continuously scared by the Bush administration regarding terror threats? ”

THat is a real question, and I think we will see the answer shortly … and I think it will be ….Hell, NO!

Of course, the other piece of business that will sideswipe the administration this week is a call from the Attorney General in Great Britain to “close GITMO”.

]]> By: Keith E. Johnson http://donklephant.com/2006/05/11/how-far-should-we-let-the-nsa-go/comment-page-1/#comment-21092 Keith E. Johnson Thu, 11 May 2006 22:14:09 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2006/05/11/how-far-should-we-let-the-nsa-go/#comment-21092 My feelings on the subject are on the same line as Thomas Jefferson or Ben Franklin as one or both of them have been credited with the quote "Those who give up freedom for safety shall have neither." I feel that when my time comes, the Good Lord will get me regardless of where I am or what I'm doing. If we have our liberties back, but I die in another 9/11, so be it so I don't worry about it. We lived for decades without fear, why can't we go back? My feelings on the subject are on the same line as Thomas Jefferson or Ben Franklin as one or both of them have been credited with the quote “Those who give up freedom for safety shall have neither.” I feel that when my time comes, the Good Lord will get me regardless of where I am or what I’m doing. If we have our liberties back, but I die in another 9/11, so be it so I don’t worry about it. We lived for decades without fear, why can’t we go back?

]]> By: JP http://donklephant.com/2006/05/11/how-far-should-we-let-the-nsa-go/comment-page-1/#comment-21061 JP Thu, 11 May 2006 16:14:36 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2006/05/11/how-far-should-we-let-the-nsa-go/#comment-21061 Justin - Ha! Well, to anyone who's read those two books, the similarities should be obvious. I'm consciously trying to avoid paranoia here, to remain level-headed. But between TIA, this program, and the two-way TVs in 1984.. The BNW link is more interesting, as I do question the "national security" defense for not revealing information. Honestly, in one sense it'd be pretty dumb for a terrorist to believe we were NOT tapping calls in one form or another; therefore, saying that we do is NOT revealing something people don't suspect already. I think the main reason programs like this are classified is because of the reaction currently taking place. This traces back to Vietnam--many argue (unsuccessfully in my opinion) that we lost that war because of lack of support from the public. Peer pressure is used to maintain support, and information that would diminish support is withheld in the name of "national security" -- because revealing it would lower support, which could cause us to lose the war. The objective is keeping the public ("betas") satiated and supportive; whether the means used is "soma" or withholding of incendiary information, the outcome is the same. Justin – Ha! Well, to anyone who’s read those two books, the similarities should be obvious. I’m consciously trying to avoid paranoia here, to remain level-headed. But between TIA, this program, and the two-way TVs in 1984..

The BNW link is more interesting, as I do question the “national security” defense for not revealing information. Honestly, in one sense it’d be pretty dumb for a terrorist to believe we were NOT tapping calls in one form or another; therefore, saying that we do is NOT revealing something people don’t suspect already.

I think the main reason programs like this are classified is because of the reaction currently taking place. This traces back to Vietnam–many argue (unsuccessfully in my opinion) that we lost that war because of lack of support from the public. Peer pressure is used to maintain support, and information that would diminish support is withheld in the name of “national security” — because revealing it would lower support, which could cause us to lose the war.

The objective is keeping the public (“betas”) satiated and supportive; whether the means used is “soma” or withholding of incendiary information, the outcome is the same.

]]> By: Daniel DiRito http://donklephant.com/2006/05/11/how-far-should-we-let-the-nsa-go/comment-page-1/#comment-21059 Daniel DiRito Thu, 11 May 2006 16:05:01 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2006/05/11/how-far-should-we-let-the-nsa-go/#comment-21059 So if I follow the latest logic…gee, we aren't doing anything illegal even though we aren't using the FISA system…and we are talking to "some" members of congress…but they can't tell you anything because the information is totally classified….and gee, we are ok with some investigative oversight…but unfortunately we can't grant security clearance to the investigators. Gee…it looks to me like we have a dictator in charge. He breaks the rules, he rewrites the rules, he changes the rules, and he answers to no one. I only hope we can soon finish exporting our "democracy" to Iraq and the rest of the oppressed world so they can have the same rights that we do. more observations here: <a href="http://www.thoughttheater.com/" rel="nofollow">www.thoughttheater.com</a> So if I follow the latest logic…gee, we aren’t doing anything illegal even though we aren’t using the FISA system…and we are talking to “some” members of congress…but they can’t tell you anything because the information is totally classified….and gee, we are ok with some investigative oversight…but unfortunately we can’t grant security clearance to the investigators.

Gee…it looks to me like we have a dictator in charge. He breaks the rules, he rewrites the rules, he changes the rules, and he answers to no one.

I only hope we can soon finish exporting our “democracy” to Iraq and the rest of the oppressed world so they can have the same rights that we do.

more observations here:

http://www.thoughttheater.com

]]> By: Justin Gardner http://donklephant.com/2006/05/11/how-far-should-we-let-the-nsa-go/comment-page-1/#comment-21058 Justin Gardner Thu, 11 May 2006 16:00:26 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2006/05/11/how-far-should-we-let-the-nsa-go/#comment-21058 This should alarm everybody, regardless of partisan affiliation. We have gone WAY too far WAY too quickly and it's time to stop. And yes, the biggest question is, "Has this made us safer?" And even if it has, are we going to sacrifice a LOT of freedom for a LITTLE bit of safety And has this led to the imprisonment of anybody for something unrelated to terrorism? The questions you start creating after you do something like this are legion. This news is deeply upsetting and I hope we, as a people, push back on this program hard. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_Awareness_Office" rel="nofollow">Total Information Awareness</a> indeed. And by the way, JP, I noticed that your favorite books include 1984 and Brave New World. Any comment on the links between this information and those books? This should alarm everybody, regardless of partisan affiliation. We have gone WAY too far WAY too quickly and it’s time to stop.

And yes, the biggest question is, “Has this made us safer?” And even if it has, are we going to sacrifice a LOT of freedom for a LITTLE bit of safety And has this led to the imprisonment of anybody for something unrelated to terrorism? The questions you start creating after you do something like this are legion.

This news is deeply upsetting and I hope we, as a people, push back on this program hard.

Total Information Awareness indeed.

And by the way, JP, I noticed that your favorite books include 1984 and Brave New World. Any comment on the links between this information and those books?

]]> By: JP http://donklephant.com/2006/05/11/how-far-should-we-let-the-nsa-go/comment-page-1/#comment-21056 JP Thu, 11 May 2006 15:49:24 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2006/05/11/how-far-should-we-let-the-nsa-go/#comment-21056 <a href="http://jpsgoddamnblog.blogspot.com/2006/05/terrorist-surveillance-redefined.html" rel="nofollow">Three Questions</a>: Why wasn't this information volunteered earlier this year when the first reports surfaced? Why were we only given part of the truth as an answer? Are people still willing to sacrifice all manner of personal liberty in exchange for security, after being continuously scared by the Bush administration regarding terror threats? Three Questions:

Why wasn’t this information volunteered earlier this year when the first reports surfaced?

Why were we only given part of the truth as an answer?

Are people still willing to sacrifice all manner of personal liberty in exchange for security, after being continuously scared by the Bush administration regarding terror threats?

]]> By: Phillip J. Birmingham http://donklephant.com/2006/05/11/how-far-should-we-let-the-nsa-go/comment-page-1/#comment-21054 Phillip J. Birmingham Thu, 11 May 2006 15:41:31 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2006/05/11/how-far-should-we-let-the-nsa-go/#comment-21054 Matt Yglesias on this: http://www.prospect.org/weblog/2006/05/post_336.html#002317 <blockquote>It's important to link this up to the broader chain. One thing the Bush administration says it can do with this meta-data is to start tapping your calls and listening in, without getting a warrant from anyone. Having listened in on your calls, the administration asserts that if it doesn't like what it hears, it has the authority to detain you indefinitely without trial or charges, torture you until you confess or implicate others, extradite you to a Third World country to be tortured, ship you to a secret prison facility in Eastern Europe, or all of the above. If, having kidnapped and tortured you, the administration determines you were innocent after all, you'll be dumped without papers somewhere in Albania left to fend for yourself.</blockquote> Matt Yglesias on this:

http://www.prospect.org/weblog/2006/05/post_336.html#002317

It’s important to link this up to the broader chain. One thing the Bush administration says it can do with this meta-data is to start tapping your calls and listening in, without getting a warrant from anyone. Having listened in on your calls, the administration asserts that if it doesn’t like what it hears, it has the authority to detain you indefinitely without trial or charges, torture you until you confess or implicate others, extradite you to a Third World country to be tortured, ship you to a secret prison facility in Eastern Europe, or all of the above. If, having kidnapped and tortured you, the administration determines you were innocent after all, you’ll be dumped without papers somewhere in Albania left to fend for yourself.

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