Comments on: Rudeness on the Left [UPDATED] http://donklephant.com/2006/05/19/rudeness-on-the-left/ Big Teeth. Huge Ass. Surprisingly Reasonable. Sun, 22 Nov 2009 10:53:41 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Meredith http://donklephant.com/2006/05/19/rudeness-on-the-left/comment-page-1/#comment-26541 Meredith Tue, 23 May 2006 16:07:47 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2006/05/19/rudeness-on-the-left/#comment-26541 Same comment I made to Justin's post, "Discuss." If a school hauls in an inappropriate speaker for graduation, expect people to be angry and expect them to do something about it. Free speech people. What's with everyone saying it's "rude" to protest at graduation. So what? Civil disobedience is never going to be polite. People are not polite about these things because saying, "Oh, excuse me, please get another speaker because this one you have scheduled is offensive to me," doesn't work. When are protests polite? Same comment I made to Justin’s post, “Discuss.” If a school hauls in an inappropriate speaker for graduation, expect people to be angry and expect them to do something about it. Free speech people. What’s with everyone saying it’s “rude” to protest at graduation. So what? Civil disobedience is never going to be polite. People are not polite about these things because saying, “Oh, excuse me, please get another speaker because this one you have scheduled is offensive to me,” doesn’t work. When are protests polite?

]]> By: rob http://donklephant.com/2006/05/19/rudeness-on-the-left/comment-page-1/#comment-26410 rob Tue, 23 May 2006 12:25:11 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2006/05/19/rudeness-on-the-left/#comment-26410 amba, I don't think you know what childish is. What is childish is glomming on to a sitsuation that is not the norm for one group, while ignoring what is the norm for another. This was not McCains graduation, it was the students. A stump speach from someone 180 degrees away from the students, is not what they deserved. Pooh is right, he is nowhere near the high road. I doubt that McCain didn't know what his staffer wrote on Huffington Post. amba, I don’t think you know what childish is. What is childish is glomming on to a sitsuation that is not the norm for one group, while ignoring what is the norm for another.

This was not McCains graduation, it was the students. A stump speach from someone 180 degrees away from the students, is not what they deserved.

Pooh is right, he is nowhere near the high road. I doubt that McCain didn’t know what his staffer wrote on Huffington Post.

]]> By: Pooh http://donklephant.com/2006/05/19/rudeness-on-the-left/comment-page-1/#comment-26315 Pooh Tue, 23 May 2006 00:18:07 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2006/05/19/rudeness-on-the-left/#comment-26315 Amba, See my link above, is that the high road? That said, I tend to agree that each side should police its own. I just don't see much worth policing here - this is largely how debate <i>should</i> work - counterspeech. Amba,

See my link above, is that the high road?

That said, I tend to agree that each side should police its own. I just don’t see much worth policing here – this is largely how debate should work – counterspeech.

]]> By: amba http://donklephant.com/2006/05/19/rudeness-on-the-left/comment-page-1/#comment-26303 amba Mon, 22 May 2006 23:23:30 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2006/05/19/rudeness-on-the-left/#comment-26303 There is rage bubbling up in America, but this "you clean up your act first!" crap is childish and INEFFECTUAL. The idea that "I've got an excuse to be rude because the other side is rude" only showa that you can't think of a better way to show up the other side. When your enemy gets you in a red-faced tantrum, he's won. Figure out how to win over the voters, not how to VENT. That means figure out how to be SUPERIOR rather than in a snit because you are INFERIOR (at politics, at winning over the voters!). The Republicans fight outrageously dirty, but the Democrats fight POORLY. Now McCain is taking the high road, and is scoring points for it with voters who are fed up with venom. (Of which McCain hiimself has been the victim more than the perpetrator!!! Watch him for an example of how to cunningly rise above it, and make your opponents look petty and yourself look magnanimous and calm!) There is rage bubbling up in America, but this “you clean up your act first!” crap is childish and INEFFECTUAL. The idea that “I’ve got an excuse to be rude because the other side is rude” only showa that you can’t think of a better way to show up the other side. When your enemy gets you in a red-faced tantrum, he’s won. Figure out how to win over the voters, not how to VENT. That means figure out how to be SUPERIOR rather than in a snit because you are INFERIOR (at politics, at winning over the voters!). The Republicans fight outrageously dirty, but the Democrats fight POORLY. Now McCain is taking the high road, and is scoring points for it with voters who are fed up with venom. (Of which McCain hiimself has been the victim more than the perpetrator!!! Watch him for an example of how to cunningly rise above it, and make your opponents look petty and yourself look magnanimous and calm!)

]]> By: Pooh http://donklephant.com/2006/05/19/rudeness-on-the-left/comment-page-1/#comment-26300 Pooh Mon, 22 May 2006 23:07:47 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2006/05/19/rudeness-on-the-left/#comment-26300 <blockquote>it sounded like McCain was giving a stump speech.</blockquote> Yup. Which is fine, but you have wanted your graduation to be a forum for someone else's political machinations? Me neither. And if you want rudeness, consider the reactions of a (soon to be former?) <a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2006/05/21/top-mccain-aide-insults-e_n_21405.html" rel="nofollow">McCain staffer to Ms. Rohe</a>...

it sounded like McCain was giving a stump speech.

Yup. Which is fine, but you have wanted your graduation to be a forum for someone else’s political machinations? Me neither.

And if you want rudeness, consider the reactions of a (soon to be former?) McCain staffer to Ms. Rohe…

]]> By: Alex http://donklephant.com/2006/05/19/rudeness-on-the-left/comment-page-1/#comment-26256 Alex Mon, 22 May 2006 18:18:07 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2006/05/19/rudeness-on-the-left/#comment-26256 From the clips I saw on TV it sounded like McCain was giving a stump speech. I don't think that students and guests booing were tactful but there is a sense of rage bubbling up in America. It sounds insulting to say we should cleanup national debate and discourse after all the mudslinging and lies we have gone through these past years. To McCain's credit he would try his best not to get involved with the personal and unfounded attacks from the Republican party (well he once did). From the clips I saw on TV it sounded like McCain was giving a stump speech. I don’t think that students and guests booing were tactful but there is a sense of rage bubbling up in America. It sounds insulting to say we should cleanup national debate and discourse after all the mudslinging and lies we have gone through these past years.

To McCain’s credit he would try his best not to get involved with the personal and unfounded attacks from the Republican party (well he once did).

]]> By: rob http://donklephant.com/2006/05/19/rudeness-on-the-left/comment-page-1/#comment-26229 rob Mon, 22 May 2006 17:53:45 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2006/05/19/rudeness-on-the-left/#comment-26229 I agree with Michael completely. But not only should his post apply to McCain, but amba as well. If you are going to whine about rudeness, you should look at where 99% of it comes from. Hint: it's not the Democrats. I agree with Michael completely. But not only should his post apply to McCain, but amba as well.

If you are going to whine about rudeness, you should look at where 99% of it comes from. Hint: it’s not the Democrats.

]]> By: michael http://donklephant.com/2006/05/19/rudeness-on-the-left/comment-page-1/#comment-25471 michael Sun, 21 May 2006 20:36:19 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2006/05/19/rudeness-on-the-left/#comment-25471 It's pretty patronizing for a Republican like McCain to lecture liberals on civilized discourse, when his party has made it its job to call liberals un-american, unpatriotic, terrorist-enabling communists over the last 5 years. The day he calls out Cheney, Bush, Rumsfeld, Coulter, Limbaugh, Hannity, O'Reilly and their ilk for what they have done to the national discourse, then he can complain about liberals. He should clean his own house first. It’s pretty patronizing for a Republican like McCain to lecture liberals on civilized discourse, when his party has made it its job to call liberals un-american, unpatriotic, terrorist-enabling communists over the last 5 years. The day he calls out Cheney, Bush, Rumsfeld, Coulter, Limbaugh, Hannity, O’Reilly and their ilk for what they have done to the national discourse, then he can complain about liberals. He should clean his own house first.

]]> By: Justin Gardner http://donklephant.com/2006/05/19/rudeness-on-the-left/comment-page-1/#comment-24321 Justin Gardner Sat, 20 May 2006 18:14:03 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2006/05/19/rudeness-on-the-left/#comment-24321 Indeed, but it's known specifically for its art programs. Well, let me say that's what me and my friends know it for. And yes, I agree. These people lose sympathy. However, and I don't say this lightly, when you have an administration that is so forceful and so unapologetic, expect those who disagree with them to become equally as strident for fear that they won't be heard. There's balance in all of this and the Daily Kos, vocal left is completely understandable in our current historical context. Honestly, Kos and his kind are downright moderate in comparison to other anti-war factions as little as 35 years ago. Indeed, but it’s known specifically for its art programs. Well, let me say that’s what me and my friends know it for.

And yes, I agree. These people lose sympathy. However, and I don’t say this lightly, when you have an administration that is so forceful and so unapologetic, expect those who disagree with them to become equally as strident for fear that they won’t be heard. There’s balance in all of this and the Daily Kos, vocal left is completely understandable in our current historical context. Honestly, Kos and his kind are downright moderate in comparison to other anti-war factions as little as 35 years ago.

]]> By: amba http://donklephant.com/2006/05/19/rudeness-on-the-left/comment-page-1/#comment-24097 amba Sat, 20 May 2006 13:30:20 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2006/05/19/rudeness-on-the-left/#comment-24097 Much more than just design and art. Also humanities and social and political sciences. I believe it was founded in the 1930s by scholars who were fleeing the Nazis. I'm not saying people shouldn't protest or dissent, just that they lose sympathy, stature and the power of persuasion when they do it childishly. Much more than just design and art. Also humanities and social and political sciences. I believe it was founded in the 1930s by scholars who were fleeing the Nazis.

I’m not saying people shouldn’t protest or dissent, just that they lose sympathy, stature and the power of persuasion when they do it childishly.

]]> By: Justin Gardner http://donklephant.com/2006/05/19/rudeness-on-the-left/comment-page-1/#comment-23758 Justin Gardner Sat, 20 May 2006 07:02:48 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2006/05/19/rudeness-on-the-left/#comment-23758 <blockquote>A senior class speaker said she’d thrown away her prepared remarks to declare that “The senator does not reflect the ideals upon which this university was founded.� After her speech and McCain’s, Kerrey praised them both for the courage to express their convictions in words instead of catcalls.</blockquote> Well, McCain doesn't embody a lot of what makes up the New School. As I'm sure you're aware, it's a well regarded university of design and art. Hardly a place where the majority of McCain's views are going to be appreciated. I say protest if you want. Just don't expect to be respected if you have a reflexive reaction to those who you disagree with.

A senior class speaker said she’d thrown away her prepared remarks to declare that “The senator does not reflect the ideals upon which this university was founded.� After her speech and McCain’s, Kerrey praised them both for the courage to express their convictions in words instead of catcalls.

Well, McCain doesn’t embody a lot of what makes up the New School. As I’m sure you’re aware, it’s a well regarded university of design and art. Hardly a place where the majority of McCain’s views are going to be appreciated.

I say protest if you want. Just don’t expect to be respected if you have a reflexive reaction to those who you disagree with.

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