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	<title>Comments on: Discuss</title>
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	<description>Big Teeth. Huge Ass. Surprisingly Reasonable.</description>
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		<title>By: kreiz</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2006/05/22/discuss-10/comment-page-3/#comment-27678</link>
		<dc:creator>kreiz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 May 2006 19:11:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2006/05/22/discuss-10/#comment-27678</guid>
		<description>Anectodal evidence may be suspect but here&#039;s an example supporting Brian&#039;s argument.  My daughter just finished her frosh year at a large, progressive public midwestern unversity.  She took a history class that focused on the Civil-War era.  Her professor gave her a writing assignment with three suggested topics.  Two related to the effects of slavery on blacks (racism) and the third related to oppression of women (sexism).  In other words, there was a decidedly 21st century prism on 18th century history.

Do I think her prof consciously chose to influence her students?  No.  Nor do I believe that she&#039;s Ward Churchill equivalent.  I presume, however, that teaching against the evils of racism and sexism in the context of US history is of very high (if not paramount) importance to this prof.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anectodal evidence may be suspect but here&#8217;s an example supporting Brian&#8217;s argument.  My daughter just finished her frosh year at a large, progressive public midwestern unversity.  She took a history class that focused on the Civil-War era.  Her professor gave her a writing assignment with three suggested topics.  Two related to the effects of slavery on blacks (racism) and the third related to oppression of women (sexism).  In other words, there was a decidedly 21st century prism on 18th century history.</p>
<p>Do I think her prof consciously chose to influence her students?  No.  Nor do I believe that she&#8217;s Ward Churchill equivalent.  I presume, however, that teaching against the evils of racism and sexism in the context of US history is of very high (if not paramount) importance to this prof.</p>
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		<title>By: kreiz</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2006/05/22/discuss-10/comment-page-3/#comment-27677</link>
		<dc:creator>kreiz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 May 2006 18:58:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2006/05/22/discuss-10/#comment-27677</guid>
		<description>Put it this way, Dos.  Apologists for the counterposition would have no trouble seeing that Hillsdale and Patrick Henry are populated by right-wing profs.  Nor would they have any problem criticizing that arrangement as intellectually undiverse.  Their blindness occurs when staring in the opposite direction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Put it this way, Dos.  Apologists for the counterposition would have no trouble seeing that Hillsdale and Patrick Henry are populated by right-wing profs.  Nor would they have any problem criticizing that arrangement as intellectually undiverse.  Their blindness occurs when staring in the opposite direction.</p>
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		<title>By: DosPeros</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2006/05/22/discuss-10/comment-page-3/#comment-27673</link>
		<dc:creator>DosPeros</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 May 2006 17:56:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2006/05/22/discuss-10/#comment-27673</guid>
		<description>There simply is no rational, logical, analytical (or another manifestation of correct brain functioning) counter-position to the liberal (I&#039;ll go ahead and say Marxist) bias at most universities.  It simply can not be done with a straight face.

The greatest fraudulent meme in the world is when people who intellectually disagree with the common wisdom of professor class are called anti-intellectuals, or anti-intellectualism.  

Such universities as Hillsdale College in MA and Patrick Henry in VA and Ave Maria all have their exceptional academic creditials due to the rotting Marxist core of public universities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There simply is no rational, logical, analytical (or another manifestation of correct brain functioning) counter-position to the liberal (I&#8217;ll go ahead and say Marxist) bias at most universities.  It simply can not be done with a straight face.</p>
<p>The greatest fraudulent meme in the world is when people who intellectually disagree with the common wisdom of professor class are called anti-intellectuals, or anti-intellectualism.  </p>
<p>Such universities as Hillsdale College in MA and Patrick Henry in VA and Ave Maria all have their exceptional academic creditials due to the rotting Marxist core of public universities.</p>
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		<title>By: kreiz</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2006/05/22/discuss-10/comment-page-3/#comment-27462</link>
		<dc:creator>kreiz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 May 2006 11:31:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2006/05/22/discuss-10/#comment-27462</guid>
		<description>Meredith and Pooh both cry for evidence.  So I googled this 2002 reference:  &quot;a recent survey issued by the Center for the Study of Popular Culture and the American Enterprise Institute reveals that the overwhelming majority of college professors are registered Democrats.  It found that more that 90% of professors who work in the arts and sciences departments at leading colleges and universities belong to either Democrat, Green or Working Class parties -- with very few registered as either Republican or Libertarian.

I don&#039;t know the survey&#039;s particulars.  But it may evidence a bias toward liberalism.  It may evidence a lack of intellectual diversity at major college arts &amp; sciences departments.  Let&#039;s assume the study&#039;s findings are true.  I&#039;d be interested in hearing facts supporting the counterposition.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Meredith and Pooh both cry for evidence.  So I googled this 2002 reference:  &#8220;a recent survey issued by the Center for the Study of Popular Culture and the American Enterprise Institute reveals that the overwhelming majority of college professors are registered Democrats.  It found that more that 90% of professors who work in the arts and sciences departments at leading colleges and universities belong to either Democrat, Green or Working Class parties &#8212; with very few registered as either Republican or Libertarian.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know the survey&#8217;s particulars.  But it may evidence a bias toward liberalism.  It may evidence a lack of intellectual diversity at major college arts &amp; sciences departments.  Let&#8217;s assume the study&#8217;s findings are true.  I&#8217;d be interested in hearing facts supporting the counterposition.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian in MA</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2006/05/22/discuss-10/comment-page-3/#comment-27102</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian in MA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 May 2006 22:56:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2006/05/22/discuss-10/#comment-27102</guid>
		<description>Meredith: Those weren&#039;t my definitions, they were on the Seattle Public Schools Website (Seattle Public Schools, as in, the educational institutions in Seattle designed with the sole purpose to fill young impressionable minds with knowledge. No wonder people complain about Inner City Schools if that is what they call education). When I first saw them, I too thought it was a hoax, so I went to the main page and tried to get there through links. Sure enough, it could be found through main page links.

In any event:

It is a FACT that collectivist ideologies are the source of much murder, torture, and lack of progress in the world.

Nazis were collectivist. &quot;Aryan Race&quot; ring a bell? That society did a lot of killing, and eventually fell only because of bad military actions.

Communists are collectivists. Stalin killed more people than Hitler did, noone has forgotten about Tiananmen Square,  and Castro isn&#039;t a fun guy either. Sure, you got the benefit of being equal. Equally miserable, and prone to being killed at the governments will if you dared have any sort of individuality.

And those &quot;noble&quot; Africans? Tribal system. Africa was around long before Europe, but they never got the hint that dividing people into tribes wasn&#039;t smart if you wanted a peaceful land mass. Now I know it isn&#039;t popular to bash beautiful African culture, but an African war dance put on by students loses context when the audience doesn&#039;t get speared afterwards, like what would actually happen after such an occurence.

Individualism and Capitalism, however, are what caused America to go from a group of dissident rebels to the most powerful country on earth in a span of 170 years, a mere fraction of what other societies took to reach their height. Boosted by the geniuses of the European enlightenment, the spirit of American individuality and personal initiative is what has made us so successful. Sure, we share common &quot;American values&quot; such as the rights we feel we are all entitled to by Writ of God or Natural Law, but the groundwork on earth is all done by individuals.

In short, there&#039;s a reason why Europe and America are top dogs: Individualism and Capitalism. Why mess with what works for the sake of making the world&#039;s losers, murderers, and barbarians feel better.

The point is, commencement speakers are supposed to give you your final advice before you head off into the world. If you haven&#039;t been properly educated in the systems that work, a commencement speech may be your last saving grace. Condi may very well saved some poor artsy-fartsy soul from getting a rude awakening when they hit a world where individualism and capitalism are the requirements of success, and sadly, they were too busy learning Marx and Lenin.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Meredith: Those weren&#8217;t my definitions, they were on the Seattle Public Schools Website (Seattle Public Schools, as in, the educational institutions in Seattle designed with the sole purpose to fill young impressionable minds with knowledge. No wonder people complain about Inner City Schools if that is what they call education). When I first saw them, I too thought it was a hoax, so I went to the main page and tried to get there through links. Sure enough, it could be found through main page links.</p>
<p>In any event:</p>
<p>It is a FACT that collectivist ideologies are the source of much murder, torture, and lack of progress in the world.</p>
<p>Nazis were collectivist. &#8220;Aryan Race&#8221; ring a bell? That society did a lot of killing, and eventually fell only because of bad military actions.</p>
<p>Communists are collectivists. Stalin killed more people than Hitler did, noone has forgotten about Tiananmen Square,  and Castro isn&#8217;t a fun guy either. Sure, you got the benefit of being equal. Equally miserable, and prone to being killed at the governments will if you dared have any sort of individuality.</p>
<p>And those &#8220;noble&#8221; Africans? Tribal system. Africa was around long before Europe, but they never got the hint that dividing people into tribes wasn&#8217;t smart if you wanted a peaceful land mass. Now I know it isn&#8217;t popular to bash beautiful African culture, but an African war dance put on by students loses context when the audience doesn&#8217;t get speared afterwards, like what would actually happen after such an occurence.</p>
<p>Individualism and Capitalism, however, are what caused America to go from a group of dissident rebels to the most powerful country on earth in a span of 170 years, a mere fraction of what other societies took to reach their height. Boosted by the geniuses of the European enlightenment, the spirit of American individuality and personal initiative is what has made us so successful. Sure, we share common &#8220;American values&#8221; such as the rights we feel we are all entitled to by Writ of God or Natural Law, but the groundwork on earth is all done by individuals.</p>
<p>In short, there&#8217;s a reason why Europe and America are top dogs: Individualism and Capitalism. Why mess with what works for the sake of making the world&#8217;s losers, murderers, and barbarians feel better.</p>
<p>The point is, commencement speakers are supposed to give you your final advice before you head off into the world. If you haven&#8217;t been properly educated in the systems that work, a commencement speech may be your last saving grace. Condi may very well saved some poor artsy-fartsy soul from getting a rude awakening when they hit a world where individualism and capitalism are the requirements of success, and sadly, they were too busy learning Marx and Lenin.</p>
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		<title>By: Meredith</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2006/05/22/discuss-10/comment-page-3/#comment-27094</link>
		<dc:creator>Meredith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 May 2006 21:02:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2006/05/22/discuss-10/#comment-27094</guid>
		<description>Lonely and Brian,

Yes, really.  As Pooh stated above, there is no indication whatever that the faculty in the picture have either: (1) been providing their students with a sub-par education, or (2) done so because they are too busy being liberal in the classroom.

One might look at the picture Justin posted and decide to have a discussion about liberals&#039; effect on education, but you guys seem to deliberately change the subject from the appropriateness of protesting to &quot;by the way, those liberals are really messing up our schools.&quot;  And btw Brian, I have never had ANY teacher or any other adult teach me about &quot;feeling good&quot; at all, much less teaching me about that, as opposed to critical thinking and rational thought.  And, &quot;feeling good,&quot; critical thinking and rational thought are not mutually exclusive.

Also Brian, your quote about definitions of racism seemed to be out of the blue.  I&#039;m not even sure I care to guess why you think those definitions are so bad.  I disagree with those definitions, but I wonder what your beef is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lonely and Brian,</p>
<p>Yes, really.  As Pooh stated above, there is no indication whatever that the faculty in the picture have either: (1) been providing their students with a sub-par education, or (2) done so because they are too busy being liberal in the classroom.</p>
<p>One might look at the picture Justin posted and decide to have a discussion about liberals&#8217; effect on education, but you guys seem to deliberately change the subject from the appropriateness of protesting to &#8220;by the way, those liberals are really messing up our schools.&#8221;  And btw Brian, I have never had ANY teacher or any other adult teach me about &#8220;feeling good&#8221; at all, much less teaching me about that, as opposed to critical thinking and rational thought.  And, &#8220;feeling good,&#8221; critical thinking and rational thought are not mutually exclusive.</p>
<p>Also Brian, your quote about definitions of racism seemed to be out of the blue.  I&#8217;m not even sure I care to guess why you think those definitions are so bad.  I disagree with those definitions, but I wonder what your beef is.</p>
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		<title>By: Pooh</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2006/05/22/discuss-10/comment-page-3/#comment-27079</link>
		<dc:creator>Pooh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 May 2006 19:19:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2006/05/22/discuss-10/#comment-27079</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Really, Meredith?

How could this thread NOT be about that? The picture is of the FACULTYÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã‚Â¦you know, the folks that have been teaching these kids the last four or so years.

You really donÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t see the connection? &lt;/blockquote&gt;

So, because they protested at graduation, they devote classroom time to Bush-bashing instead of the subject matter at hand? I mean I&#039;ll agree that the set of those professors who would devote classroom time thusly is probably within the set of those who would protest, but I think you&#039;re making a pretty severe category error by assuming the reverse. What do my political views and actions have to do with my ability to teach Spanish, or Physics, or Literature? (I mean aside from the fact that I personally have no ability to teach any of the above...)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Really, Meredith?</p>
<p>How could this thread NOT be about that? The picture is of the FACULTYÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã‚Â¦you know, the folks that have been teaching these kids the last four or so years.</p>
<p>You really donÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t see the connection? </p></blockquote>
<p>So, because they protested at graduation, they devote classroom time to Bush-bashing instead of the subject matter at hand? I mean I&#8217;ll agree that the set of those professors who would devote classroom time thusly is probably within the set of those who would protest, but I think you&#8217;re making a pretty severe category error by assuming the reverse. What do my political views and actions have to do with my ability to teach Spanish, or Physics, or Literature? (I mean aside from the fact that I personally have no ability to teach any of the above&#8230;)</p>
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		<title>By: Pooh</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2006/05/22/discuss-10/comment-page-3/#comment-27078</link>
		<dc:creator>Pooh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 May 2006 19:12:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2006/05/22/discuss-10/#comment-27078</guid>
		<description>Brian, I suppose it would prove your point to simply say that that is the dumbest thing I&#039;ve ever heard. 

So I&#039;ll go a little further, and suggest that disagreeing with you isn&#039;t prima facie evidence of a lack of critical thinking. Talk about pots and kettles here, but you are so busy demonizing the &#039;over-liberalized education system&#039; that you aren&#039;t even considering positions opposed to yours, which is something of a requisite for critical thinking.

Evidence? or just some assertions as to &#039;what works&#039; that are so amorphously defined as to be useless as touchstones for any meaningful discussion. The fact that you are invoking &lt;i&gt;individualism&lt;/i&gt; to indict people protesting those in power is simply stunning.

Sure, you might say that you&#039;ve &#039;considered and rejected&#039;, which would be nice and might carry some weight if you recitation of opposing viewpoints bore some relation to those actually espoused instead of the straw-effigies you choose to attack. If you want critical thinking practice, try countering the &lt;i&gt;strongest&lt;/i&gt; argument in favor of the protests (for example) instead of the weakest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brian, I suppose it would prove your point to simply say that that is the dumbest thing I&#8217;ve ever heard. </p>
<p>So I&#8217;ll go a little further, and suggest that disagreeing with you isn&#8217;t prima facie evidence of a lack of critical thinking. Talk about pots and kettles here, but you are so busy demonizing the &#8216;over-liberalized education system&#8217; that you aren&#8217;t even considering positions opposed to yours, which is something of a requisite for critical thinking.</p>
<p>Evidence? or just some assertions as to &#8216;what works&#8217; that are so amorphously defined as to be useless as touchstones for any meaningful discussion. The fact that you are invoking <i>individualism</i> to indict people protesting those in power is simply stunning.</p>
<p>Sure, you might say that you&#8217;ve &#8216;considered and rejected&#8217;, which would be nice and might carry some weight if you recitation of opposing viewpoints bore some relation to those actually espoused instead of the straw-effigies you choose to attack. If you want critical thinking practice, try countering the <i>strongest</i> argument in favor of the protests (for example) instead of the weakest.</p>
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		<title>By: Lonely Federalist</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2006/05/22/discuss-10/comment-page-3/#comment-27076</link>
		<dc:creator>Lonely Federalist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 May 2006 19:07:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2006/05/22/discuss-10/#comment-27076</guid>
		<description>Really, Meredith?

How could this thread NOT be about that?  The picture is of the FACULTY...you know, the folks that have been teaching these kids the last four or so years.

You really don&#039;t see the connection?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Really, Meredith?</p>
<p>How could this thread NOT be about that?  The picture is of the FACULTY&#8230;you know, the folks that have been teaching these kids the last four or so years.</p>
<p>You really don&#8217;t see the connection?</p>
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		<title>By: Meredith</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2006/05/22/discuss-10/comment-page-3/#comment-27073</link>
		<dc:creator>Meredith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 May 2006 18:28:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2006/05/22/discuss-10/#comment-27073</guid>
		<description>ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…â€œIf you spend four years of your life and uncounted dollars to get a college education, and during that time donÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t have your deepest beliefs challenged, you should ask for your money back.ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã‚?

&quot;Looks like some of these kids got that just in the nick of time.&quot;

&quot;WeÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢re so busy worrying about making everyone feel happy and like a big happy family instead of doing what education is supposed to do: Teach you the basic skills neccesary to survive in this world. Education needs to use what works, and that is, tried and true over time, individualism and capitalism.&quot;


Are you kidding me?  I can&#039;t believe this debate has devolved into a discussion of whether or not our schools are too liberal and therefore not teaching kids to challenge their beliefs and not delivering a quality education.  Oh wait, yes I can believe it because you all suffer from LDS (Liberal Derangement Syndrome), a cousin of BDS, of course.

Conservatives turning an anti-war protest into an assault on how liberals are f***ing up education in this country.  A speaker at your graduation is NOT part of the educational process.  This is because everyone has completed their coursework with passing grades, and they have GRADUATED!!!!!  I also disagree with the suggestion that a partisan politician speaking at a graduation is providing much in the way of education or a serious challenge to a person&#039;s values or beliefs.  They mostly attend those things for PR purposes, not to educate or challenge.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…â€œIf you spend four years of your life and uncounted dollars to get a college education, and during that time donÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t have your deepest beliefs challenged, you should ask for your money back.ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã‚?</p>
<p>&#8220;Looks like some of these kids got that just in the nick of time.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;WeÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢re so busy worrying about making everyone feel happy and like a big happy family instead of doing what education is supposed to do: Teach you the basic skills neccesary to survive in this world. Education needs to use what works, and that is, tried and true over time, individualism and capitalism.&#8221;</p>
<p>Are you kidding me?  I can&#8217;t believe this debate has devolved into a discussion of whether or not our schools are too liberal and therefore not teaching kids to challenge their beliefs and not delivering a quality education.  Oh wait, yes I can believe it because you all suffer from LDS (Liberal Derangement Syndrome), a cousin of BDS, of course.</p>
<p>Conservatives turning an anti-war protest into an assault on how liberals are f***ing up education in this country.  A speaker at your graduation is NOT part of the educational process.  This is because everyone has completed their coursework with passing grades, and they have GRADUATED!!!!!  I also disagree with the suggestion that a partisan politician speaking at a graduation is providing much in the way of education or a serious challenge to a person&#8217;s values or beliefs.  They mostly attend those things for PR purposes, not to educate or challenge.</p>
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		<title>By: Lonely Federalist</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2006/05/22/discuss-10/comment-page-3/#comment-27067</link>
		<dc:creator>Lonely Federalist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 May 2006 17:31:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2006/05/22/discuss-10/#comment-27067</guid>
		<description>To paraphrase (probably poorly) one of the best lines I&#039;ve heard regarding debate and learning in college:

&quot;If you spend four years of your life and uncounted dollars to get a college education, and during that time don&#039;t have your deepest beliefs challenged, you should ask for your money back.&quot;

Looks like some of these kids got that just in the nick of time.

I thought it was tacky for the faculty to participate, but I&#039;m okay with the students doing so.  Overall, it was a much classier display than The New School&#039;s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To paraphrase (probably poorly) one of the best lines I&#8217;ve heard regarding debate and learning in college:</p>
<p>&#8220;If you spend four years of your life and uncounted dollars to get a college education, and during that time don&#8217;t have your deepest beliefs challenged, you should ask for your money back.&#8221;</p>
<p>Looks like some of these kids got that just in the nick of time.</p>
<p>I thought it was tacky for the faculty to participate, but I&#8217;m okay with the students doing so.  Overall, it was a much classier display than The New School&#8217;s.</p>
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		<title>By: kreiz</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2006/05/22/discuss-10/comment-page-2/#comment-27062</link>
		<dc:creator>kreiz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 May 2006 16:37:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2006/05/22/discuss-10/#comment-27062</guid>
		<description>Brian in MA- bingo on the lack of critical thinking.  Cal must update his definition to include your third arm (leg, whatever).  That would make it a leftist Triple Crown.  Or the left&#039;s Chimaera- a three-headed fire-breathing monster (googled- I didn&#039;t know that).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brian in MA- bingo on the lack of critical thinking.  Cal must update his definition to include your third arm (leg, whatever).  That would make it a leftist Triple Crown.  Or the left&#8217;s Chimaera- a three-headed fire-breathing monster (googled- I didn&#8217;t know that).</p>
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		<title>By: DosPeros</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2006/05/22/discuss-10/comment-page-2/#comment-27061</link>
		<dc:creator>DosPeros</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 May 2006 16:28:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2006/05/22/discuss-10/#comment-27061</guid>
		<description>My top ten list of Commencement Speakers:

1) Axel Rose
2) Charles Taylor, the Liberian mass-murderer, not the N.C. Rep 11th Dist.
3) Paris Hilton -- after several vikes and a cocktail or two
4) Ken Lay, Jeffery Skilling 
5) Oliver North
6) Keith Richards
7) Larry Flint
8) Matt Blunt....I almost vomited on the keyboard, I laughed so hard.
9) Ann Coultier
10) Jesse Jackson   

Now that would be a graduation to remember. Except for #8 which would just be sad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My top ten list of Commencement Speakers:</p>
<p>1) Axel Rose<br />
2) Charles Taylor, the Liberian mass-murderer, not the N.C. Rep 11th Dist.<br />
3) Paris Hilton &#8212; after several vikes and a cocktail or two<br />
4) Ken Lay, Jeffery Skilling<br />
5) Oliver North<br />
6) Keith Richards<br />
7) Larry Flint<br />
8) Matt Blunt&#8230;.I almost vomited on the keyboard, I laughed so hard.<br />
9) Ann Coultier<br />
10) Jesse Jackson   </p>
<p>Now that would be a graduation to remember. Except for #8 which would just be sad.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian in MA</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2006/05/22/discuss-10/comment-page-2/#comment-27058</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian in MA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 May 2006 15:56:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2006/05/22/discuss-10/#comment-27058</guid>
		<description>Given a choice between Jodie Foster, a D-List actress and Dr. Condoleeza Rice, Secretary of State for commencement speaker, I will go for the person whose merits include actual work doing things people care about, as opposed to a person who pretends to be other people for entertainment purposes.

Quite frankly, the reason we are so far behind the rest of the world in education is because we&#039;re doing too much liberal social engineering. We&#039;re so busy worrying about making everyone feel happy and like a big happy family instead of doing what education is supposed to do: Teach you the basic skills neccesary to survive in this world. Education needs to use what works, and that is, tried and true over time, individualism and capitalism. Communism and Collectivism have caused more death, torture, and destruction than any other ideologies in history, and yet academia insists they have some merit. They are no longer theories, they were tried and they failed. Miserably.

But here&#039;s something that should jar any rational person:

Seattle Public Schools:
http://www.seattleschools.org/area/equityandrace/definitionofrace.xml

Specifically:

&quot;Racism:
The systematic subordination of members of targeted racial groups who have relatively little social power in the United States (Blacks, Latino/as, Native Americans, and Asians), by the members of the agent racial group who have relatively more social power (Whites). The subordination is supported by the actions of individuals, cultural norms and values, and the institutional structures and practices of society.&quot;

&quot;Cultural Racism:
Those aspects of society that overtly and covertly attribute value and normality to white people and Whiteness, and devalue, stereotype, and label people of color as ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…â€œotherÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã‚?, different, less than, or render them invisible. Examples of these norms include defining white skin tones as nude or flesh colored, having a future time orientation, emphasizing individualism as opposed to a more collective ideology, defining one form of English as standard, and identifying only Whites as great writers or composers.&quot;

This is the inanity going on in the American Education System. Not even the staunchest leftist with a rational thought left can call this sort of idiocy something good for America or any society. Callimachus&#039; two headed monster is spot on, though I think a third head is needed: 

3) Ensuring through social engineering that America continues to raise anti-American leftists who value feeling good (as defined by the liberal mantra, of course) in higher regard than rational thought and critical thinking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Given a choice between Jodie Foster, a D-List actress and Dr. Condoleeza Rice, Secretary of State for commencement speaker, I will go for the person whose merits include actual work doing things people care about, as opposed to a person who pretends to be other people for entertainment purposes.</p>
<p>Quite frankly, the reason we are so far behind the rest of the world in education is because we&#8217;re doing too much liberal social engineering. We&#8217;re so busy worrying about making everyone feel happy and like a big happy family instead of doing what education is supposed to do: Teach you the basic skills neccesary to survive in this world. Education needs to use what works, and that is, tried and true over time, individualism and capitalism. Communism and Collectivism have caused more death, torture, and destruction than any other ideologies in history, and yet academia insists they have some merit. They are no longer theories, they were tried and they failed. Miserably.</p>
<p>But here&#8217;s something that should jar any rational person:</p>
<p>Seattle Public Schools:<br />
<a href="http://www.seattleschools.org/area/equityandrace/definitionofrace.xml" >http://www.seattleschools.org/area/equityandrace/definitionofrace.xml</a></p>
<p>Specifically:</p>
<p>&#8220;Racism:<br />
The systematic subordination of members of targeted racial groups who have relatively little social power in the United States (Blacks, Latino/as, Native Americans, and Asians), by the members of the agent racial group who have relatively more social power (Whites). The subordination is supported by the actions of individuals, cultural norms and values, and the institutional structures and practices of society.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Cultural Racism:<br />
Those aspects of society that overtly and covertly attribute value and normality to white people and Whiteness, and devalue, stereotype, and label people of color as ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…â€œotherÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã‚?, different, less than, or render them invisible. Examples of these norms include defining white skin tones as nude or flesh colored, having a future time orientation, emphasizing individualism as opposed to a more collective ideology, defining one form of English as standard, and identifying only Whites as great writers or composers.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is the inanity going on in the American Education System. Not even the staunchest leftist with a rational thought left can call this sort of idiocy something good for America or any society. Callimachus&#8217; two headed monster is spot on, though I think a third head is needed: </p>
<p>3) Ensuring through social engineering that America continues to raise anti-American leftists who value feeling good (as defined by the liberal mantra, of course) in higher regard than rational thought and critical thinking.</p>
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		<title>By: Meredith</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2006/05/22/discuss-10/comment-page-2/#comment-27054</link>
		<dc:creator>Meredith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 May 2006 15:31:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2006/05/22/discuss-10/#comment-27054</guid>
		<description>Dos,

&quot;So doesnÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t it seem perfectly logical that after 4 or 7 years of brow-beating indoctrination that for 30 minutes an opposing view is heard. &quot;

In short, no - not during graduation.  It may just be a matter of taste, but I do not want to be &quot;challenged&quot; on that afternoon.  At my college graduation, I wouldn&#039;t have cared if Hitler spoke because I was hung over and bored to death.  I didn&#039;t want to be there at all, and it was way too long.  Law school graduation was different because law school was hard and way expensive.  Therefore, it really mattered to me to have a nice, celebratory ceremony, with no BS.  Granted, our speaker ended up being fine, I guess.

That was just my personal experience, but I can imagine that many people feel about their college graduation the way I felt about law school, and I just think it&#039;s inappropriate for schools to be bringing in controversial speakers when there are so many more inspiring people they could get to come in and give a great little motivating speech.  You know, people like Bono or Mel Gibson or Bill Gates (insert smiley emoticon here).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dos,</p>
<p>&#8220;So doesnÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t it seem perfectly logical that after 4 or 7 years of brow-beating indoctrination that for 30 minutes an opposing view is heard. &#8221;</p>
<p>In short, no &#8211; not during graduation.  It may just be a matter of taste, but I do not want to be &#8220;challenged&#8221; on that afternoon.  At my college graduation, I wouldn&#8217;t have cared if Hitler spoke because I was hung over and bored to death.  I didn&#8217;t want to be there at all, and it was way too long.  Law school graduation was different because law school was hard and way expensive.  Therefore, it really mattered to me to have a nice, celebratory ceremony, with no BS.  Granted, our speaker ended up being fine, I guess.</p>
<p>That was just my personal experience, but I can imagine that many people feel about their college graduation the way I felt about law school, and I just think it&#8217;s inappropriate for schools to be bringing in controversial speakers when there are so many more inspiring people they could get to come in and give a great little motivating speech.  You know, people like Bono or Mel Gibson or Bill Gates (insert smiley emoticon here).</p>
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		<title>By: DosPeros</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2006/05/22/discuss-10/comment-page-2/#comment-27053</link>
		<dc:creator>DosPeros</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 May 2006 15:30:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2006/05/22/discuss-10/#comment-27053</guid>
		<description>I meant Lawrence Tribe, not Lawrence Summers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I meant Lawrence Tribe, not Lawrence Summers.</p>
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		<title>By: Joshua</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2006/05/22/discuss-10/comment-page-2/#comment-27051</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 May 2006 14:37:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2006/05/22/discuss-10/#comment-27051</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;wj:
Somehow, I seem to remember protests against a despotic government in South Africa. And somehow, they seem to have made a difference, too. And there are other possible examples from the past half century. So I think the theory that mere pragmatism is the reason for the distinction is really a stretch.&lt;/i&gt;

Bear in mind my qualifier (emphasis added here): &quot;People who protest democracies and not despotisms do so because they recognize that protesting will have zero influence on a despot (&lt;b&gt;especially not a foreign one&lt;/b&gt;), but it at least has a chance to influence a free democratic society.

The South Africans were not protesting a foreign despotism, they were protesting their own despotism. Also there was no democratic outside nation propping up that despotism to demonstrate against. So, the situation you&#039;re describing has little in common with the Iraq war protests, which target a democracy (the U.S.) but virtually ignored the despotism of the regime being overthrown, or the tyrannical goals of the Islamists we&#039;re fighting there now.

That said, perhaps a better example of what Pooh and I are getting at is the half-hearted-at-best support of many Western feminists for women living under strict Muslim regimes. There, again, the prevailing attitude seems to be that the Muslim world isn&#039;t open to reform, so they should focus their efforts on the West because they are open to reform.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>wj:<br />
Somehow, I seem to remember protests against a despotic government in South Africa. And somehow, they seem to have made a difference, too. And there are other possible examples from the past half century. So I think the theory that mere pragmatism is the reason for the distinction is really a stretch.</i></p>
<p>Bear in mind my qualifier (emphasis added here): &#8220;People who protest democracies and not despotisms do so because they recognize that protesting will have zero influence on a despot (<b>especially not a foreign one</b>), but it at least has a chance to influence a free democratic society.</p>
<p>The South Africans were not protesting a foreign despotism, they were protesting their own despotism. Also there was no democratic outside nation propping up that despotism to demonstrate against. So, the situation you&#8217;re describing has little in common with the Iraq war protests, which target a democracy (the U.S.) but virtually ignored the despotism of the regime being overthrown, or the tyrannical goals of the Islamists we&#8217;re fighting there now.</p>
<p>That said, perhaps a better example of what Pooh and I are getting at is the half-hearted-at-best support of many Western feminists for women living under strict Muslim regimes. There, again, the prevailing attitude seems to be that the Muslim world isn&#8217;t open to reform, so they should focus their efforts on the West because they are open to reform.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Berczik</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2006/05/22/discuss-10/comment-page-2/#comment-27049</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Berczik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 May 2006 13:11:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2006/05/22/discuss-10/#comment-27049</guid>
		<description>OTOH, I did find Jean Rohe&#039;s speech at the New School (another event in the saga of John McCain), while a tad corny and self-indulgent, to have been a genuine brave act. This young woman showed some guts, I think. I don&#039;t buy her arguments (e.g. McCain shouldn&#039;t have been invited because he doesn&#039;t gel with the spirit of the university) but I do respect her action.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OTOH, I did find Jean Rohe&#8217;s speech at the New School (another event in the saga of John McCain), while a tad corny and self-indulgent, to have been a genuine brave act. This young woman showed some guts, I think. I don&#8217;t buy her arguments (e.g. McCain shouldn&#8217;t have been invited because he doesn&#8217;t gel with the spirit of the university) but I do respect her action.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Berczik</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2006/05/22/discuss-10/comment-page-2/#comment-27048</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Berczik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 May 2006 11:45:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2006/05/22/discuss-10/#comment-27048</guid>
		<description>Protests aside, the very idea of &quot;Not in My Name&quot; is absurd, especially at a University. Since when did it become imperative that one&#039;s opinions, beliefs and prejudices be protected and reinforced? Aren&#039;t our universities to be institutions of challenge and inquiry? 

What we are seeing, IMO, is a dull example of the overly protective and indulgent atmosphere in which we cloak our youth. They may act in rude and insufferable ways (they are, after all, kids) but they may not subjected to any concept that could cause a bit of cognitive dissonance. So the whole &quot;speaking truth to power&quot; meme is upheld rather humorously.

It would have been great fun if Rice had demonstrated some humor. When the group turned their backs, consider the snickers if she had plainly asked them, &quot;Is it because I&#039;m black?&quot; Maybe she should recruit Steven Colbert&#039;s writers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Protests aside, the very idea of &#8220;Not in My Name&#8221; is absurd, especially at a University. Since when did it become imperative that one&#8217;s opinions, beliefs and prejudices be protected and reinforced? Aren&#8217;t our universities to be institutions of challenge and inquiry? </p>
<p>What we are seeing, IMO, is a dull example of the overly protective and indulgent atmosphere in which we cloak our youth. They may act in rude and insufferable ways (they are, after all, kids) but they may not subjected to any concept that could cause a bit of cognitive dissonance. So the whole &#8220;speaking truth to power&#8221; meme is upheld rather humorously.</p>
<p>It would have been great fun if Rice had demonstrated some humor. When the group turned their backs, consider the snickers if she had plainly asked them, &#8220;Is it because I&#8217;m black?&#8221; Maybe she should recruit Steven Colbert&#8217;s writers.</p>
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		<title>By: kreiz</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2006/05/22/discuss-10/comment-page-2/#comment-27047</link>
		<dc:creator>kreiz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 May 2006 10:59:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2006/05/22/discuss-10/#comment-27047</guid>
		<description>But I don&#039;t think that&#039;s the case, at least not as to Castro.  Many far leftists and Hollywood celebrities (and I&#039;m not talking mainstream Dems) have taken pilgrammages to Havana and stood in wonderment at the feet of the populist, cigar-smoking dictator.  So there are counterfacts supporting it.  Your point has more validity vis-a-vis the Taliban, although Yale&#039;s recent embrace of a minor Talibanic figure cuts the other way (somewhat) as do the pro-Taliban plaudits of Professors Churchill and Chomsky.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s the case, at least not as to Castro.  Many far leftists and Hollywood celebrities (and I&#8217;m not talking mainstream Dems) have taken pilgrammages to Havana and stood in wonderment at the feet of the populist, cigar-smoking dictator.  So there are counterfacts supporting it.  Your point has more validity vis-a-vis the Taliban, although Yale&#8217;s recent embrace of a minor Talibanic figure cuts the other way (somewhat) as do the pro-Taliban plaudits of Professors Churchill and Chomsky.</p>
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