Comments on: From telephone calls to bank records http://donklephant.com/2006/06/23/from-telephone-calls-to-bank-records/ Big Teeth. Huge Ass. Surprisingly Reasonable. Tue, 14 Feb 2012 14:03:13 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: john http://donklephant.com/2006/06/23/from-telephone-calls-to-bank-records/comment-page-1/#comment-43371 john Tue, 27 Jun 2006 01:57:49 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2006/06/23/from-telephone-calls-to-bank-records/#comment-43371 Dos, You still didn't answer my question about defending against domestic terrorism by registering weapons. And doesn't the 4th Admendment apply to phone conversations? I was speaking specifically towards the illegal wire taps and data mining that is occuring, but your right I wrapped this one up in that whole mess, because it seems to be part and parcel of the whole. So why is it that Right wing individuals refuse to answer this question? Dos,

You still didn’t answer my question about defending against domestic terrorism by registering weapons. And doesn’t the 4th Admendment apply to phone conversations? I was speaking specifically towards the illegal wire taps and data mining that is occuring, but your right I wrapped this one up in that whole mess, because it seems to be part and parcel of the whole.

So why is it that Right wing individuals refuse to answer this question?

]]> By: DosPeros http://donklephant.com/2006/06/23/from-telephone-calls-to-bank-records/comment-page-1/#comment-43305 DosPeros Mon, 26 Jun 2006 23:43:38 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2006/06/23/from-telephone-calls-to-bank-records/#comment-43305 John - You have no 4th amendment "reasonable expectation of privacy" in your negotiable instruments given over to a 3rd party banker. U.S. v. Miller, 425 U.S. 435. Try to arm yourself with some knowledge of constitutional law prior to using the constitution as a means of partisan attack. John – You have no 4th amendment “reasonable expectation of privacy” in your negotiable instruments given over to a 3rd party banker. U.S. v. Miller, 425 U.S. 435. Try to arm yourself with some knowledge of constitutional law prior to using the constitution as a means of partisan attack.

]]> By: john http://donklephant.com/2006/06/23/from-telephone-calls-to-bank-records/comment-page-1/#comment-43299 john Mon, 26 Jun 2006 23:35:08 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2006/06/23/from-telephone-calls-to-bank-records/#comment-43299 probligo, Not intending to stir the pot, but it seems that the flag on civil rights only goes up for right wingers here when we talk about gun control, then the constitution means something to them. I own a number of guns, but to tell the truth, I'd rather the gov't know what guns I have, then to have them looking into my phone records and financials, as innocent as any of those activities are. probligo,

Not intending to stir the pot, but it seems that the flag on civil rights only goes up for right wingers here when we talk about gun control, then the constitution means something to them. I own a number of guns, but to tell the truth, I’d rather the gov’t know what guns I have, then to have them looking into my phone records and financials, as innocent as any of those activities are.

]]> By: probligo http://donklephant.com/2006/06/23/from-telephone-calls-to-bank-records/comment-page-1/#comment-42703 probligo Sun, 25 Jun 2006 23:55:07 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2006/06/23/from-telephone-calls-to-bank-records/#comment-42703 Interesting indeed!! NZ has law that requires - 1. Banks to declare to RBNZ all international transfers in excess of USD5,000. 2. Travellers are required to declare currency in excess of NZD10,000 on leaving or entering NZ. Both requirements were the result of international agreements sponsored by the US following 9/11 to curtail funding of "terrorist organisations". WHERE YA BEEN??? Oooo!! John, you naughty man you! Interesting indeed!!

NZ has law that requires -

1. Banks to declare to RBNZ all international transfers in excess of USD5,000.
2. Travellers are required to declare currency in excess of NZD10,000 on leaving or entering NZ.

Both requirements were the result of international agreements sponsored by the US following 9/11 to curtail funding of “terrorist organisations”.

WHERE YA BEEN???

Oooo!! John, you naughty man you!

]]> By: john http://donklephant.com/2006/06/23/from-telephone-calls-to-bank-records/comment-page-1/#comment-41431 john Sat, 24 Jun 2006 00:45:39 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2006/06/23/from-telephone-calls-to-bank-records/#comment-41431 I've said this one before, but here goes again. For all y'all that think it's cool if the gov't goes sifting through americans lives and information, so long as the gov't is looking for foreigners/terrorists/muslims/people of color. But what about domestic terrorism? Oklahoma City Bombing? The Snipers? Both of those cases could have been prevented if there was a sufficient database of registered weapons. Shouldn't the gov't then register all gunowners, and be able to locate people on that basis. Better yet set up a database of ballistic profiles of every weapon sold in America? Wouldn't that help to track killers, criminals, terrorists. And isn't more likely the smart terrorist might see that the terror doled out on the East Coast during the sniper scare is just as damaging as the much harder task of knocking down a building. Not as flashy, but it gets as much news coverage. I mean after all, if you're using your gun in a lawful manner, you have nothing to hide, right. I’ve said this one before, but here goes again. For all y’all that think it’s cool if the gov’t goes sifting through americans lives and information, so long as the gov’t is looking for foreigners/terrorists/muslims/people of color. But what about domestic terrorism? Oklahoma City Bombing? The Snipers? Both of those cases could have been prevented if there was a sufficient database of registered weapons. Shouldn’t the gov’t then register all gunowners, and be able to locate people on that basis. Better yet set up a database of ballistic profiles of every weapon sold in America? Wouldn’t that help to track killers, criminals, terrorists. And isn’t more likely the smart terrorist might see that the terror doled out on the East Coast during the sniper scare is just as damaging as the much harder task of knocking down a building. Not as flashy, but it gets as much news coverage. I mean after all, if you’re using your gun in a lawful manner, you have nothing to hide, right.

]]> By: Sean Aqui http://donklephant.com/2006/06/23/from-telephone-calls-to-bank-records/comment-page-1/#comment-41157 Sean Aqui Fri, 23 Jun 2006 19:31:15 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2006/06/23/from-telephone-calls-to-bank-records/#comment-41157 Like the stories before it, this isn't going to help the terrorists much. Swift processes a huge chunk of the world's financial transactions. Unless terrorists abandon electronic money transfers entirely, they're going to have trouble escaping surveillance. And the Swift database isn't the only tool being used. The FBI uses old-fashioned warrants to gather information on wire transfers and ATM transactions. I agree on the middle ground. And that middle ground should probably look like this: 1. We identify a terror suspect as the first link in the chain. We've got dozens if not hundreds of these already. 2. We obtain <i>narrowly-tailored</i> warrants to delve into all sorts of things about that suspect: phone calls, financial transactions, etc. This builds the case against the suspect while also leading to other suspects. This requires that the courts and Congress develop a legal standard for what constitutes sufficient evidence to be labeled a "terror suspect", and at what point a linkage becomes so remote from terror activity that it should stop being followed. Like the stories before it, this isn’t going to help the terrorists much. Swift processes a huge chunk of the world’s financial transactions. Unless terrorists abandon electronic money transfers entirely, they’re going to have trouble escaping surveillance.

And the Swift database isn’t the only tool being used. The FBI uses old-fashioned warrants to gather information on wire transfers and ATM transactions.

I agree on the middle ground. And that middle ground should probably look like this:

1. We identify a terror suspect as the first link in the chain. We’ve got dozens if not hundreds of these already.

2. We obtain narrowly-tailored warrants to delve into all sorts of things about that suspect: phone calls, financial transactions, etc. This builds the case against the suspect while also leading to other suspects.

This requires that the courts and Congress develop a legal standard for what constitutes sufficient evidence to be labeled a “terror suspect”, and at what point a linkage becomes so remote from terror activity that it should stop being followed.

]]> By: Stubborn Facts http://donklephant.com/2006/06/23/from-telephone-calls-to-bank-records/comment-page-1/#comment-41153 Stubborn Facts Fri, 23 Jun 2006 19:28:18 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2006/06/23/from-telephone-calls-to-bank-records/#comment-41153 <strong>International banking records - some facts</strong> ... BSphere Buzz Powerline Michelle Malkin Pajamas Media Captain's Quarters Instapundit The Moderate Voice Donklephant Kevin Drum The blogosphere is buzzing over today's New York Times report about the "secret" program to access bank transaction ... International banking records – some facts

…
BSphere Buzz
Powerline
Michelle Malkin
Pajamas Media
Captain’s Quarters
Instapundit
The Moderate Voice
Donklephant
Kevin Drum

The blogosphere is buzzing over today’s New York Times report about the “secret” program to access bank transaction …

]]> By: Trickish Knave http://donklephant.com/2006/06/23/from-telephone-calls-to-bank-records/comment-page-1/#comment-41123 Trickish Knave Fri, 23 Jun 2006 18:33:28 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2006/06/23/from-telephone-calls-to-bank-records/#comment-41123 Well, now that the Times reported this I don't think the tin foil heads will have anything to worry about. It will become a useless program as our enemies will now avoid overseas transactions or find some other way to fund thier efforts to kill Americans. It is a shame because the program is(was?) successful in capturing this <a href="http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/08/04/alqaeda.suspect/" rel="nofollow">jackhole.</a> I'm all for civil liberties and there has to be some middle ground that will enable our counter terrorism people to safeguard our nation and at the same time not send the conspiracy theorists to thier bomb shelters. Well, now that the Times reported this I don’t think the tin foil heads will have anything to worry about. It will become a useless program as our enemies will now avoid overseas transactions or find some other way to fund thier efforts to kill Americans.

It is a shame because the program is(was?) successful in capturing this jackhole.

I’m all for civil liberties and there has to be some middle ground that will enable our counter terrorism people to safeguard our nation and at the same time not send the conspiracy theorists to thier bomb shelters.

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