The only way one could argue that the minimum wage
is contrary to economic growth and a catalyst for job
loss, is to bear false witness.

Unfortunately for those of this mindset, there are
the inconvenient facts.

How far down the economic ladder do Working Class Americans have to be kicked to satisfy Americas Economic Royalists.

As it stands today, the average worker in the United States must work a full year to earn what the average CEO earns in one day.

Know this my fellow Americans:
We can hang together, or hang separately.

All the best, Eric V.

And how many are buying TVs and going on vacations?

It doesnt fight poverty. It doesnt touch poverty. It is a feel good tactic designed to make poor people think their legislators care about them.

“[M]inimum wage hikes increased poverty exits but also increased the probability that previously non-poor families entered poverty. . . . Overall the tradeoffs created by minimum wage increases, more closely resemble income redistribution among low-income families than income redistribution from high-to-low-income families.”

See how ridiculous this gets? You cant possibly expect a 1 or 2 dollar an hour raise in the minimum wage (which economists have PROVEN will NOT help the poor-it WILL cause more unemployment, it WILL cause prices to increase) to solve the problems you are talking about.

The nation stands at about 4.5% unemployment. Thats lower than it was during the Clinton years. The economy is supporting anywhere between 12 and 20 million illegal immigrant workers on TOP of the low unemployment. Again…I cant speak to the specific cases you have mentioned. I dont have direct knowledge of where they are and what their job situation is like so I wont be so arrogant as to presume that in their current situation they can do better. So…whats the answer?

Change your current situation. Dont expect some increase in the minimum to be a magical fix (especially when economists have proven that it wont be). I cant speak for you, but if its ME and I for some reason cant succeed where I am? I’m moving to a place where the economy will support my family.

My own particular economic situation continue to improve. not by accident, not by government help but by hard work. I am not alone. I work with young folks that change their own futre every day. It CAN be done.

Yes, she has been trying to look for other jobs when she has time. So has my wife’s other brother who graduated with a degree in education in December. He is now working in a factory because every opening had at least 50 applicants, even openings in job training centers and libraries. She is stuck at the same job because every well paying job or full time job had many extremely highly qualified applicants. The only jobs that are as available as you claim are the cashier at Target or Wal-Mart type jobs. Part time, minimum wage or barely over jobs.

Instead…invest in training programs, small business loans (with business counseling) for underpriveleged, job growth, (I’m a big fan of investing in industrial growth and development at home vs abroad).

Real solutions. Not lip service, not pretending you have their best interest at heart and not buying votes with the offers of a little more cash that you KNOW will be gobbled up with higher costs, inflation, and unemployment. REAL solutions.

Have you tried? Has she tried? Seriously…instead of giving it lip service have you or she applied for those jobs or do you just assume there will be 50 people trying to get them? Have you been to the employment offices and looked at the employers that leave those positions open because they cant get them filled and thats WHY they have to offer 11-15 dollars an hour?

I understand the restrictions of school. I work a full time position, am in graduate school full time, and work an internship…believe me…I understand how hard it is to work everything around each other AND balance time for a family. Hard…but not impossible.

Meridith:again…I cant speak to your specific situation. Did you and your fellow lawyers examine the job market before you decided on a career? The economy IS booming and growing so if there arent jobs available NOW…then what must there have NOT been when you started?

I have a brother in law that has a doctoral degree ina math related field. Bad planning that because there arent too many jobs as “math’s” out there. He can teach…but he has to go back to school. He can be an engineer…but he needs more schooling. Bad planning. Instead he manages a hotel.

We have a very close family friend who has his PhD in Midelvel (sp) Literature. Hmmmm…there arent even many teaching positions for that specialty. He probably should have planned better (he knows that). Instead, he works a s a manager at a loading dock for a major food chain.

Planning is everything. ESPECIALLY for people with advance degrees.

You say you can easily get a lawyer position. OK…so maybe you get that job and do some private work as well. Isnt that how you build? You wont be the first person to work two jobs to pay off your education (in fact you will be the second person in THIS conversation. What are your goals? What is your plan to achieve those goals?

Our counseling center handles everything from abuse to addicition to career counseling to you name it. I regularly work with people that are 30, scared, frustrated, work at a call center for 7 dollars an hour and wake up and realize that their life sucks and they have no future. We have seen many of those people utilize counseling, employment testing and services, get into college, and make positive choices that will provide for them a future 5-10 years down the road. It’s the NORM for us, not the exception. It works EVERY time we work with people committed to positive change.

The economy IS booming. It is seeing real growth as opposed to the dot com boom (and bust) of the 90′s.

For heavens sake people, we have immigrants that come here with nothing, work their butts off, in 5 years own their own stores, 10 years have a family business, and provide their children and grandchildren with futures. They dont do it with government help. They do it because they are driven, because they recognize opportunites they dont have in their home countries, and they WANT to succeed.

I am currently looking for a job, and it is looking impossible. I have a law degree and an impressive resume, but there are more people applying with better resumes than I have. They are going to get the high-paying jobs. I, with an awesome resume will probably easily get an attorney position that doesn’t pay enough to cover my bills, and which would usually be a job someone with a mediocre resume would apply for, so I will be taking that job from that person. Where, then, is that person supposed to get a job? I know many people from my law school class that can’t get anything related to law, even though they have earned their J.D. from an accredited institution. A few people are working for minimum wage at Target. Is Target going to hire a lawyer to run the cash register or someone with only a GED? Do you all see where I’m going with this?

Another issues it that there are a lot of people who come from very difficult backgrounds, who might have criminal records, who might not be that smart, who might not have a GED, etc. who have a much smaller chance of getting ahead in the job market. They might be able to get a job at McDonald’s, but they might have a low IQ and might not be able to cut it as a manager. Also, people with criminal records (yeah, yeah, yeah, they made their bed . . .) are not as desirable as workers than others, but if you want them to continue to be good citizens and support their families . . . . There are people who need the minimum wage, and it must be increased to reflect inflation and the increased cost of living. Otherwise, these people will often turn to employment that appears to be more profitable and therefore usually illegal, even if there is an increased risk that they will be caught or further damage their lives.

Oh, but the economy is BOOMING!!!!!!!!!!!!

Also, when one is a student, one has to have a job with flexible hours. Schools won’t reschedule classes to fit your job schedule, so your options are much more limited.

David, I do think expanding the Earned Income Tax Credit would be a good thing but, with how far the minimum wage is behind right now, that would just lessen the need for increasing the minimum wage, not eliminate it. Also, as with all other tax cuts that have been enacted in recent years, there’s this little issue of how to afford any tax cut. We’ve already been cutting budgets in place to help the most needy in order to attempt to pay for tax cuts that go overwhelmingly to the wealthy. Whose spending gets cut to attempt to pay for tax cuts for the needy? We already have a budget crisis on our hands. We can’t afford to keep acting like the solution to every problem is cutting taxes and running up an even bigger defecit.

OK…I accept that she gets paid 2 dollars an hour and only gets two dollars an hour in tips. Which means she only waits on, what…1 table an hour?

I’ll say it again…time to quit the job.

I just did a quick job search on jobs in Milwaukee…honestly…I dont think she would have a problem finding different or better work. Even part time painter positions especially for college students run between 7-9 an hour there…

The minimum wage is not meant to be a livable wage (I think maybe thats MY point you are missing). If you are in the same job and still making minimum wage then you are foolish for staying there.

I also disagree about your conclusion that you cant walk from a minimum wage job into an 8 dollar an hour job. With no experience your BILs GF could walk into a painter job (7-9 an hour), a warehouse worker (9 an hour), a janitorial job (part time-nights 7 an hour), a bank teller job (full and part time positions and at numerous locations),
an auto parts checker (7-10 an hour, based on experience, PLUS 401 k, paid leave, etc), general cleaner (7.50 an hour and up, full and part time, flexible hours), program aide (9 an hour, HS or higher, no experience needed), laborer (no exp needed, 15-18 an hour), etc etc etc. Thats just out of the first 200 jobs that popped up in Milwaukee.

Build your own mousetrap, but dont whine and cry if you choose to step in it and stay in it.

I worked at a Burger King when I was in college and I got 25 cents per hour over minimum wage because I had a high school diploma. The pay rate there was simple. High school diploma means 25 cents per hour over minimum wage, no diploma means minimum wage. McDonalds and all the other places paid the same or Burger King would have had to pay more to get anyone.

“You mentioned your BILs G/F. I assume then that means she is a waitress? Where?”

Yes. At a local establishment near Milwaukee.

“But ask those waiters and waitresses if they would rather stop working for tips and earn a flat rate and see what they would say.”

Seeing as, even with tips, she’s getting $4-5/hour, she would in a second if she could get as many hours. Unfortunately, her problem is that her options are stay there or go to a Wal-Mart or Kohl’s or Target and work half the hours or less for minimum wage or barely over.

I think you missed my point. Suggesting a minimum wage worker can simply walk out of their job into an $8/hour job is comparable to suggesting that I can simply walk out of my job into a $100-$150k/year job. It’s just not that simple. The only ones available to someone who is still going to school or doesn’t have years of experience in a trade are the minimum wage service jobs.

Out of touch? Far from it. I lived it. And BTW…I did it too…still in school. I didnt have parents to help me either. I understand. I empathize. I relate. But I guess thats just my experience.

Indeed…good question. Why even have a minimum wage? McDonalds hires people at 7.50 an hour starting. Stay there two months and they will make you a shift lead. Show you have some drive and they will send you to management school. Its not great money but stick with it and the possibilities are good even in the fast food realm.

Just about every major city has call centers. They average starting wage at 7 an hour plus bonuses. Same thing applies. We provide counseling services to call centers across the country and have similar experiences. Show you have drive and committment you can become a coach or position lead in no time. AND most offer some form of tuition assistance.

OK…so maybe I am not being fair. Where do you live? What state and city? I wonder what the help wanted adds would have available.

You mentioned your BILs G/F. I assume then that means she is a waitress? Where? My SIL is a waiter at Roosters and pays for rent, food, and college. But if you are using restaraunt jobs as your standard, stop right there…restaraunt minimums arent the same. But ask those waiters and waitresses if they would rather stop working for tips and earn a flat rate and see what they would say.

“Yeah, and I should just quit my job because I’m not happy with my income. I’m sure there’s nothing to just going out and getting a $150k/year job. I should really get on that”

OK…sarcasm aside…and heres the point. If you are working more than a few months and you are still at minimum wage…then yes, Ryan…quit the job. You can do better. If you are there a YEAR and still at minimum wage…then STAY there…because you arent smart enough to get a job at better than minimum wage-and you are probably lucky to be able to keep it.

But are you going to walk inot a $150k a year job? No. That takes planning and foresight. Maybe it takes 5 years, 10 years, or even 15-20 years to put yourself in that position. But it is possible and doable. And there are a TON of programs available and OBTW, in case you missed it…I stated THAT is where we really should focus our efforts and NOT on this mythical minimum wage workforce that cant do any better and is stuck at minimum wage for 5-10 years and trying to raise a family.

And what? Line up for unemployment? My BIL’s girlfriend is making wait staff minimum wage, which is $2-something/hour plus tips. In total, she averages $4-5/hour. If she left her job, she’d end up somewhere else making minimum wage but working fewer hours so making less money total. She’s still in school. She’s trying to pay rent and tuition, along with of course all other living expenses, and her family has no money to support her. She has three options. Continue working for $4-5/hour, work for $5-6/hour but get much fewer hours, or not work at all.

You really sound out of touch when you insinuate that it’s a piece of cake to find a job at more than minimum wage. If it were as easy as you make it sound, why would anyone be working at minimum wage? Why would we need a minimum wage at all? People could just quit their poor paying jobs and go get an $8-10/hour job instead of working their $5-6/hour job. Yeah, and I should just quit my job because I’m not happy with my income. I’m sure there’s nothing to just going out and getting a $150k/year job. I should really get on that.

Ronnie, in fact, my mother has a classically wonderful sob story, involving a dead husband and three kids. I never missed a meal because she worked very hard and put herself through school at the same time. My eldest sister basically raised us, until my father came into the picture. My mother would never bitch and moan about her wage & how the government should make her employer pay her more.

In a free-market society, you are worth what you can get — I was taught that very early in life. All of this paternalist, emotional blubbering about the blight of minimum wage workers only re-enforces the fact that it is economically unjustifiable and truly just a bit of election year Marx-patter. If it was anything more JG would have hauled out some meaningful economic analysis by now….instead just a typical reprimand on tone.

There you go Justin. It’s not that hard to talk to minimum wage earners.

Or talk down to them apparently.

As for that CATO institute, that’s fine, but tell that to the workers who are making minimum wage. I’m sure they’d love to have a cost of living increase, especially if their representatives are getting an automatic one as well.

Okay, well, one has nothing to with the other, except it is a convenient political tool. I don’t think Congress should get a raise either, but that has NOTHING to do with the wisdom of increasing the minimum wage. In fact, if that “argument” is actually used — it’s proof-positive of cynicism. If you actually believe that increasing the min. wage will have net positive effect on the poor, I hope you have a better argument than that.

But here you go. Hear ye, Hear ye Minimum Wage Workers: If you want to make more money, you should not rely on an increase in the minimum wage, because increasing the minimum wage ultimately hurts people in your exact same situation. Your job will become less stable and if you lose your job it will become harder for you to get a job. When the government forces your employer to pay you more, regardless of the actual value of your labor, it will have a negative effect on your ability to pull yourself out of the economic confines of minimum wage (where ever that minimum is set.) Your dreams of being your own boss will become harder to achieve. Your ability to work while going to school and improving yourself will become harder. You’re ability to hold down 2 jobs, (one with high opportunity & one that makes ends meet) will become harder and you will be forced to pursue only that job that secures your temporary financial needs. You will have sacrificed an opportunity to completely climb out of poverty, for few extra cents on your paycheck. Do you really anticipate ALWAYS working a minimum wage job? If yes, then you have a bigger problem. If no, an increase in minimum wage will only make life more difficult in the long run. Don’t fall for the fallacies of class warfare, don’t be used for a cheap political pawn. Have hope for a greater life and work towards it. Don’t beg for scrapes from the government. It’s not the American way. But also, PLEASE DON’T HURT OTHER POOR PEOPLE.

There you go Justin. It’s not that hard to talk to minimum wage earners.

“Back on topic, why haven’t the Dems pushed for an increase when it’s not an election year?�

Haven’t they attempted to increase the minimum wage every year for several years now? I thought that was the case but maybe I’m wrong.

They absolutely do push this every year. Ted Kennedy has introduced legislation for the past 7 or 8 years I believe.

As for that CATO institute, that’s fine, but tell that to the workers who are making minimum wage. I’m sure they’d love to have a cost of living increase, especially if their representatives are getting an automatic one as well.

http://www.cato.org/pubs/regulation/reg18n1c.html