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	<title>Comments on: Who Lost Iraq?</title>
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	<description>Big Teeth. Huge Ass. Surprisingly Reasonable.</description>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2006/07/30/who-lost-iraq/comment-page-1/#comment-58177</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Aug 2006 14:42:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2006/07/30/who-lost-iraq/#comment-58177</guid>
		<description>&quot;Granted the US Government should have done more to keep people being brought in, but I think their fear of a Vietnam backlash is too great for them.&quot;

ES,  you just hit on my biggest beef with this administration.  If Iraq is important, vitally important, a battle we must win, then wasn&#039;t it worth risking a little more political capital to ensure victory?  

I think that even in 2003, it would have been possible to bring more people in.  It would might have forced Bush to give up a couple of other sacred cows (tax-cuts, etc) but it could have been done.  

Now, it&#039;s impossible, because who would want to join a battle when there&#039;s still no commitment to winning and the administration still wont admit they goofed.  I don&#039;t like the idea of volunteering to be part of Bush&#039;s political cover and I don&#039;t like it when men and women like yourself are sent overseas by people who lack the courage of their convictions.

As for your service, thank you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Granted the US Government should have done more to keep people being brought in, but I think their fear of a Vietnam backlash is too great for them.&#8221;</p>
<p>ES,  you just hit on my biggest beef with this administration.  If Iraq is important, vitally important, a battle we must win, then wasn&#8217;t it worth risking a little more political capital to ensure victory?  </p>
<p>I think that even in 2003, it would have been possible to bring more people in.  It would might have forced Bush to give up a couple of other sacred cows (tax-cuts, etc) but it could have been done.  </p>
<p>Now, it&#8217;s impossible, because who would want to join a battle when there&#8217;s still no commitment to winning and the administration still wont admit they goofed.  I don&#8217;t like the idea of volunteering to be part of Bush&#8217;s political cover and I don&#8217;t like it when men and women like yourself are sent overseas by people who lack the courage of their convictions.</p>
<p>As for your service, thank you.</p>
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		<title>By: ES</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2006/07/30/who-lost-iraq/comment-page-1/#comment-58156</link>
		<dc:creator>ES</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Aug 2006 13:26:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2006/07/30/who-lost-iraq/#comment-58156</guid>
		<description>Before I respond, I just wanted to say that I am a Gen-X person.  I am also one of the older persons in this generational group.  

I agree with you, at least somewhat.  The administration and Pentagon leadership have done a dis-service to the nation, especially when it became apparent more soldiers were needed and instead they chose to contract nearly everything out or putting reserve units on the front line nearly continuously.  

Back in 2001, it was chic to join the military.  No doubt about it.  Two and three years later, that was no longer the case - who in their right mind want to live in crap, be shot at, and then having to do it all over again in twelve months?  The military has had a hard time meeting its recruiting goals for a couple of years now.  They have over come that in one of three ways.  One is to provide signing bonuses and retention bonuses (one state is giving $20,000 bonus, GI Bill, and forgiveness of student loans up to $20,000).  Clearly unheard of for the military, but the $$$ is staggering in of itself.  Second is to lower the number of recruits being looked to be brought in (just a numbers game in the beginning and horrible at the end).  Third is to lower the bar of the recruits quality - the dreaded Category IV personnel (these are the ones who have tested on the apptitude somewhere between 10 and 30 percent).  Historically, the military capped the Cat IV to 2% per year, but in the middle of 2005 the number was altered by the Pentagon to be increased up to 4%, and a few months later it was reported the numbers were actually creeping up to 20%.  Congress though mandates by law the numbers never to go over 25% - but for all the talk of a volunteer force needed to do the complex tasks at hand these days, the use of Cat IV personnel just throws that argument out the window.

In addition to that, the National Guard is the unsung hero in this whole episode.  They are a reserve unit that is being treated as an active unit - and the rules for their deployment has just been altered once again to enable them to spend more time out in the field.  No longer is it two of four years in the field, but now where it is two on, two off, and two on.

On top of that, we have stop loss (a back entrance to a draft IMO).  There is also direction provided by the Pentagon in April I believe to have a plan in place to call up recently retired military personnel under the age of 60.  This call up of retired folks will most probably not be a general call-up, but one where people with specific job skills will be needed (in the first Gulf War, the physical assistants were called up in this manner).

Granted the US Government should have done more to keep people being brought in, but I think their fear of a Vietnam backlash is too great for them.  The recruiting numbers being spoken right now are somewhere between 20 and 40 thousand per year (off the cuff estimate) - with all I of the examples I have shown above, is it too much to ask for 20 to 40 thousand volunteers per year to make up the short fall?  Can the public be called for this small sacrifice?

Was the Government dishonest with the sacrifices needed to wage this event to a successful state?  Most probably.  That though does not let people back home off the hook.  They made their own decisions to best serve this event in its own particular way - they went on oblivious to the events that were around them.  They lost focus.  They lost steadfastness.  They went on to do what was best for them. 

With the expression of my point of view, and having volunteered to do two tours over the past four years, you can see that my anger at people back home fighting the &#039;War of Ideas&#039; and providing &#039;support for the troops&#039;.  Having people wrap themselves in the flag to support the troops is not volunteering to help the country - far too many people these days are following the steps of Cheney, Rove, Limbaugh than our fathers who actually did something for the country in her hour of need.

&quot;Forgive me Lord for the sins I have done and have left undone.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Before I respond, I just wanted to say that I am a Gen-X person.  I am also one of the older persons in this generational group.  </p>
<p>I agree with you, at least somewhat.  The administration and Pentagon leadership have done a dis-service to the nation, especially when it became apparent more soldiers were needed and instead they chose to contract nearly everything out or putting reserve units on the front line nearly continuously.  </p>
<p>Back in 2001, it was chic to join the military.  No doubt about it.  Two and three years later, that was no longer the case &#8211; who in their right mind want to live in crap, be shot at, and then having to do it all over again in twelve months?  The military has had a hard time meeting its recruiting goals for a couple of years now.  They have over come that in one of three ways.  One is to provide signing bonuses and retention bonuses (one state is giving $20,000 bonus, GI Bill, and forgiveness of student loans up to $20,000).  Clearly unheard of for the military, but the $$$ is staggering in of itself.  Second is to lower the number of recruits being looked to be brought in (just a numbers game in the beginning and horrible at the end).  Third is to lower the bar of the recruits quality &#8211; the dreaded Category IV personnel (these are the ones who have tested on the apptitude somewhere between 10 and 30 percent).  Historically, the military capped the Cat IV to 2% per year, but in the middle of 2005 the number was altered by the Pentagon to be increased up to 4%, and a few months later it was reported the numbers were actually creeping up to 20%.  Congress though mandates by law the numbers never to go over 25% &#8211; but for all the talk of a volunteer force needed to do the complex tasks at hand these days, the use of Cat IV personnel just throws that argument out the window.</p>
<p>In addition to that, the National Guard is the unsung hero in this whole episode.  They are a reserve unit that is being treated as an active unit &#8211; and the rules for their deployment has just been altered once again to enable them to spend more time out in the field.  No longer is it two of four years in the field, but now where it is two on, two off, and two on.</p>
<p>On top of that, we have stop loss (a back entrance to a draft IMO).  There is also direction provided by the Pentagon in April I believe to have a plan in place to call up recently retired military personnel under the age of 60.  This call up of retired folks will most probably not be a general call-up, but one where people with specific job skills will be needed (in the first Gulf War, the physical assistants were called up in this manner).</p>
<p>Granted the US Government should have done more to keep people being brought in, but I think their fear of a Vietnam backlash is too great for them.  The recruiting numbers being spoken right now are somewhere between 20 and 40 thousand per year (off the cuff estimate) &#8211; with all I of the examples I have shown above, is it too much to ask for 20 to 40 thousand volunteers per year to make up the short fall?  Can the public be called for this small sacrifice?</p>
<p>Was the Government dishonest with the sacrifices needed to wage this event to a successful state?  Most probably.  That though does not let people back home off the hook.  They made their own decisions to best serve this event in its own particular way &#8211; they went on oblivious to the events that were around them.  They lost focus.  They lost steadfastness.  They went on to do what was best for them. </p>
<p>With the expression of my point of view, and having volunteered to do two tours over the past four years, you can see that my anger at people back home fighting the &#8216;War of Ideas&#8217; and providing &#8217;support for the troops&#8217;.  Having people wrap themselves in the flag to support the troops is not volunteering to help the country &#8211; far too many people these days are following the steps of Cheney, Rove, Limbaugh than our fathers who actually did something for the country in her hour of need.</p>
<p>&#8220;Forgive me Lord for the sins I have done and have left undone.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2006/07/30/who-lost-iraq/comment-page-1/#comment-57935</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Aug 2006 16:25:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2006/07/30/who-lost-iraq/#comment-57935</guid>
		<description>ES, you make a great point on the amount of population commited to the war effort but I ask you, whose fault is that?  

After 9/11 the numbr of people joining the armed forces increased significantly just like in 1941.  But there was no follow up call for more (unless you count army recruitment commercials).  There was no message from the President saying we need all of you to make some small sacrifice to help this effort, we need more volunteers to win this struggle, etc. etc.  Had this been done in 2001/2002, there would have been a lot more boots to put on the ground in 2003.  Instead we were told to go out and spend and to not ask questions.  

So when you imply that Gen-X didn&#039;t give a crap.  I say yes, we were practically ordered by the government not to give a crap.

P.s. I don&#039;t know what the policy is around here on commenting in old posts but I had to go somewhere now that the Mighty Middle is closing up shop and ES made some intelligent comments that deserve a response.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ES, you make a great point on the amount of population commited to the war effort but I ask you, whose fault is that?  </p>
<p>After 9/11 the numbr of people joining the armed forces increased significantly just like in 1941.  But there was no follow up call for more (unless you count army recruitment commercials).  There was no message from the President saying we need all of you to make some small sacrifice to help this effort, we need more volunteers to win this struggle, etc. etc.  Had this been done in 2001/2002, there would have been a lot more boots to put on the ground in 2003.  Instead we were told to go out and spend and to not ask questions.  </p>
<p>So when you imply that Gen-X didn&#8217;t give a crap.  I say yes, we were practically ordered by the government not to give a crap.</p>
<p>P.s. I don&#8217;t know what the policy is around here on commenting in old posts but I had to go somewhere now that the Mighty Middle is closing up shop and ES made some intelligent comments that deserve a response.</p>
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		<title>By: ES</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2006/07/30/who-lost-iraq/comment-page-1/#comment-57872</link>
		<dc:creator>ES</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Aug 2006 12:56:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2006/07/30/who-lost-iraq/#comment-57872</guid>
		<description>Will more troops help now?  Probably not.  But it could have well helped in the beginning of the conflict.  As a poster has said above me, the number one reason for the fiasco is the looting that occured the weeks that followed the fall of the Ba&#039;athist regime.  That event nailed our proverbial feet to the ground and we have played catch up ever since.

People forget the administration has tried almost everything to bolster troops up to the point a draft would have been called.  People forget the privatized security firms over there doing business, and very good business that is drawing soldiers out of the military to get higher paying jobs doing the same exact thing they were doing for Uncle Sam a few months earlier.  The security firms are also not part of the chain of command for the military - though we pay handsomely for their services, they are a force among themselves.  

I blame administration for not planning.  I blame the 101st Fighting Keyboardists for their political covering fire by spreading the &#039;truthiness&#039; of the administration&#039;s talking point memos.  I blame columnists and journalists (Bill Kristol, Judy whatever her name is, Charles Kratherhammer, Ann Coulter) for public deception with their hollow promises.  Finally I blame the American public for sitting on the sideline and waiting for other people to do the dirty work for them - compare the X-generation folks to the men and women in 1941.  The X-gen failed to live up to the earlier generation&#039;s standard.  In WW2, 25% of the population was in the war.  Today, that number is somewhere around 0.1%.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Will more troops help now?  Probably not.  But it could have well helped in the beginning of the conflict.  As a poster has said above me, the number one reason for the fiasco is the looting that occured the weeks that followed the fall of the Ba&#8217;athist regime.  That event nailed our proverbial feet to the ground and we have played catch up ever since.</p>
<p>People forget the administration has tried almost everything to bolster troops up to the point a draft would have been called.  People forget the privatized security firms over there doing business, and very good business that is drawing soldiers out of the military to get higher paying jobs doing the same exact thing they were doing for Uncle Sam a few months earlier.  The security firms are also not part of the chain of command for the military &#8211; though we pay handsomely for their services, they are a force among themselves.  </p>
<p>I blame administration for not planning.  I blame the 101st Fighting Keyboardists for their political covering fire by spreading the &#8216;truthiness&#8217; of the administration&#8217;s talking point memos.  I blame columnists and journalists (Bill Kristol, Judy whatever her name is, Charles Kratherhammer, Ann Coulter) for public deception with their hollow promises.  Finally I blame the American public for sitting on the sideline and waiting for other people to do the dirty work for them &#8211; compare the X-generation folks to the men and women in 1941.  The X-gen failed to live up to the earlier generation&#8217;s standard.  In WW2, 25% of the population was in the war.  Today, that number is somewhere around 0.1%.</p>
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		<title>By: DosPeros</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2006/07/30/who-lost-iraq/comment-page-1/#comment-57532</link>
		<dc:creator>DosPeros</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Jul 2006 21:02:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2006/07/30/who-lost-iraq/#comment-57532</guid>
		<description>That is not all we have left Pug.  We also have...the P-175 Polecat!!

http://www.compositesworld.com/news/cwweekly/2006/July/cw110582

God Bless Lockheed Martin.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That is not all we have left Pug.  We also have&#8230;the P-175 Polecat!!</p>
<p><a href="http://www.compositesworld.com/news/cwweekly/2006/July/cw110582" rel="nofollow">http://www.compositesworld.com/news/cwweekly/2006/July/cw110582</a></p>
<p>God Bless Lockheed Martin.</p>
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		<title>By: Pug</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2006/07/30/who-lost-iraq/comment-page-1/#comment-57485</link>
		<dc:creator>Pug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Jul 2006 15:54:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2006/07/30/who-lost-iraq/#comment-57485</guid>
		<description>There are millions who will cling to the Ann Coulter explanation:  &quot;Things are going very well in Iraq and, if they aren&#039;t, it is the fault of the traitorous liberals.&quot; 

It&#039;s all they know and all they have left.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are millions who will cling to the Ann Coulter explanation:  &#8220;Things are going very well in Iraq and, if they aren&#8217;t, it is the fault of the traitorous liberals.&#8221; </p>
<p>It&#8217;s all they know and all they have left.</p>
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		<title>By: Barrie Higgins</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2006/07/30/who-lost-iraq/comment-page-1/#comment-57478</link>
		<dc:creator>Barrie Higgins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Jul 2006 14:48:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2006/07/30/who-lost-iraq/#comment-57478</guid>
		<description>Thomas E. Ricks is the Washington Post&#039;s Pentagon correspondent whose new book, &quot;FIASCO&quot; is excellent for understanding how we lost the &quot;war&quot; in Iraq in the first year:
No Plan for Phase IV: (mistakes in order of appearance)
#1, Looting of government ministries and museums 133
#2, Failing to secure weapons caches 146
#3, Too few forces 147
#4, Total dissolution of Iraq Army 158
#5, and Baathist leadership 158
#6, and national police force 161
#7, No Iraqi government anytime soon 165
#8, Jerry-rigged chain of command: Sanchez and Bremmer report to Rumsfeld
174
#9, Hobo Saddam gets free dental check 264 (videotape courtesy of
Odierno?)
#10 Hard drive crash due to RIP/TOA  323
#11 CPA all lit up at night 326
#12 New Iraqi Army trained by contractors and National Guard 328
#13 Pro-Iranian Shiites, fundamentalists, favored by Americans
(Shiite&quot;militias&quot; and &quot;fighters&quot;)__ Anti-Iranian Sunnis, sectarians, not
favored by Americans 428 (Sunni &quot;insurgents&quot; __&quot;enemy&quot;)
#14 Containment continues, this time on the ground, ala Israel in Lebanon
434
(And somewhere in there Abu Graib and other symptoms of mission ignorance.)
Anyone who thinks the world hasn&#039;t noticed the incompetence of Rumsfeld, Bremer and Sanchez, in the most important FIRST YEAR, is not capable of understanding much of anything.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thomas E. Ricks is the Washington Post&#8217;s Pentagon correspondent whose new book, &#8220;FIASCO&#8221; is excellent for understanding how we lost the &#8220;war&#8221; in Iraq in the first year:<br />
No Plan for Phase IV: (mistakes in order of appearance)<br />
#1, Looting of government ministries and museums 133<br />
#2, Failing to secure weapons caches 146<br />
#3, Too few forces 147<br />
#4, Total dissolution of Iraq Army 158<br />
#5, and Baathist leadership 158<br />
#6, and national police force 161<br />
#7, No Iraqi government anytime soon 165<br />
#8, Jerry-rigged chain of command: Sanchez and Bremmer report to Rumsfeld<br />
174<br />
#9, Hobo Saddam gets free dental check 264 (videotape courtesy of<br />
Odierno?)<br />
#10 Hard drive crash due to RIP/TOA  323<br />
#11 CPA all lit up at night 326<br />
#12 New Iraqi Army trained by contractors and National Guard 328<br />
#13 Pro-Iranian Shiites, fundamentalists, favored by Americans<br />
(Shiite&#8221;militias&#8221; and &#8220;fighters&#8221;)__ Anti-Iranian Sunnis, sectarians, not<br />
favored by Americans 428 (Sunni &#8220;insurgents&#8221; __&#8221;enemy&#8221;)<br />
#14 Containment continues, this time on the ground, ala Israel in Lebanon<br />
434<br />
(And somewhere in there Abu Graib and other symptoms of mission ignorance.)<br />
Anyone who thinks the world hasn&#8217;t noticed the incompetence of Rumsfeld, Bremer and Sanchez, in the most important FIRST YEAR, is not capable of understanding much of anything.</p>
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		<title>By: Joshua</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2006/07/30/who-lost-iraq/comment-page-1/#comment-57476</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Jul 2006 14:44:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2006/07/30/who-lost-iraq/#comment-57476</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Have we forgotten what war is? Has the term been so overused as to become meaningless?&lt;/i&gt;

The &quot;war on drugs&quot;, anyone? (Speaking of quagmires...)

Actually a big part of the problem may be most of us Americans have lived their entire lives knowing only &quot;little&quot; wars, and because we know that America is the only superpower and has won &quot;big&quot; wars (such as WWII) in the past, we intuitively expect these &quot;little&quot; wars to be cakewalks. Then when they turn out not to be so one-sided after all, we tend to put too much blame on our own side and not give enough credit to our enemies (the Viet Cong, the Somali warlords, and now both the Sunni and Shi&#039;ite militias in Iraq) who have figured out how to level the battlefield.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Have we forgotten what war is? Has the term been so overused as to become meaningless?</i></p>
<p>The &#8220;war on drugs&#8221;, anyone? (Speaking of quagmires&#8230;)</p>
<p>Actually a big part of the problem may be most of us Americans have lived their entire lives knowing only &#8220;little&#8221; wars, and because we know that America is the only superpower and has won &#8220;big&#8221; wars (such as WWII) in the past, we intuitively expect these &#8220;little&#8221; wars to be cakewalks. Then when they turn out not to be so one-sided after all, we tend to put too much blame on our own side and not give enough credit to our enemies (the Viet Cong, the Somali warlords, and now both the Sunni and Shi&#8217;ite militias in Iraq) who have figured out how to level the battlefield.</p>
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		<title>By: Ron Beasley</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2006/07/30/who-lost-iraq/comment-page-1/#comment-57418</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron Beasley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Jul 2006 05:26:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2006/07/30/who-lost-iraq/#comment-57418</guid>
		<description>Another great analysis Michael although I agree with probiglo that more troops wouldn&#039;t have changed things much.  I think the Cheney/Bush cabal thought they could just put in a Washingtom friendly tyrrant who would hold the place together.  Sistani didn&#039;t buy it and it turned out their tyrrant of choice was working for Iran, at least part time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another great analysis Michael although I agree with probiglo that more troops wouldn&#8217;t have changed things much.  I think the Cheney/Bush cabal thought they could just put in a Washingtom friendly tyrrant who would hold the place together.  Sistani didn&#8217;t buy it and it turned out their tyrrant of choice was working for Iran, at least part time.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Reynolds</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2006/07/30/who-lost-iraq/comment-page-1/#comment-57410</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Reynolds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Jul 2006 03:41:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2006/07/30/who-lost-iraq/#comment-57410</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t maintain that more troops would have necessarily ensured a happy outcome.  It would have helped.  It would have shortened the odds.  You&#039;re right about the Kurds, I think they have no interest in being part of Iraq.  

What I&#039;m trying to get at with this post, and some previous ones, is the question of why we are fighting a war we define as vital, and then take actions which clearly signal that we lack seriousness.  Have we forgotten what war is?  Has the term been so overused as to become meaningless?  Have we changed in some fundamental way so that the America of Hiroshima no longer exists?  Was it propaganda all along, a lot of loud chest-beating without anyone meaning a word of it?

I think we should make war only when the necessity is so great that we can justify any means to achieve victory.  It&#039;s what they tell cops:  don&#039;t unholster the gun unless you intend to shoot someone.  Is Iraq that kind of war?  If so then why aren&#039;t more people angry that we&#039;re losing it?  

There&#039;s a disconnect here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t maintain that more troops would have necessarily ensured a happy outcome.  It would have helped.  It would have shortened the odds.  You&#8217;re right about the Kurds, I think they have no interest in being part of Iraq.  </p>
<p>What I&#8217;m trying to get at with this post, and some previous ones, is the question of why we are fighting a war we define as vital, and then take actions which clearly signal that we lack seriousness.  Have we forgotten what war is?  Has the term been so overused as to become meaningless?  Have we changed in some fundamental way so that the America of Hiroshima no longer exists?  Was it propaganda all along, a lot of loud chest-beating without anyone meaning a word of it?</p>
<p>I think we should make war only when the necessity is so great that we can justify any means to achieve victory.  It&#8217;s what they tell cops:  don&#8217;t unholster the gun unless you intend to shoot someone.  Is Iraq that kind of war?  If so then why aren&#8217;t more people angry that we&#8217;re losing it?  </p>
<p>There&#8217;s a disconnect here.</p>
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		<title>By: probligo</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2006/07/30/who-lost-iraq/comment-page-1/#comment-57404</link>
		<dc:creator>probligo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Jul 2006 03:01:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2006/07/30/who-lost-iraq/#comment-57404</guid>
		<description>I agree with your analysis,  not necessarily with your conclusion.

I personally believe that &lt;b&gt;it would not have mattered how many men the US put into Iraq,  or for how long,  the result would have been the same.&lt;/b&gt;

To look to just two factions is also simplistic.

Iraq is in fact a three ring circus.

In addition to the two that you mention,  there are also the Kurds.  The Kurds are in fact probably the most subtle,  and in many respects also the most powerful of the three factions.

The Shi&#039;a / Sunni split is confusing,  given that the various Iraqi &quot;sides&quot; are supported by Jordan,  Syria,  Saudi Arabia,  and Iran,  with informal attachments to AlQaeda and other less known power seekers.

The Kurds have one objective.  That objective goes outside of Iraq.

Kurdistan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with your analysis,  not necessarily with your conclusion.</p>
<p>I personally believe that <b>it would not have mattered how many men the US put into Iraq,  or for how long,  the result would have been the same.</b></p>
<p>To look to just two factions is also simplistic.</p>
<p>Iraq is in fact a three ring circus.</p>
<p>In addition to the two that you mention,  there are also the Kurds.  The Kurds are in fact probably the most subtle,  and in many respects also the most powerful of the three factions.</p>
<p>The Shi&#8217;a / Sunni split is confusing,  given that the various Iraqi &#8220;sides&#8221; are supported by Jordan,  Syria,  Saudi Arabia,  and Iran,  with informal attachments to AlQaeda and other less known power seekers.</p>
<p>The Kurds have one objective.  That objective goes outside of Iraq.</p>
<p>Kurdistan.</p>
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