There are some excellent sites opposing Christian Zionism.
http://christianzionismexposed.blogspot.com/
http://www.christianzionism.org/default.asp

Scott, I agree with almost everything you said. However, I believe it is the duty of every Christian to oppose doctrines and actions that bring reproach to the name of Jesus and his teachings. You have named some great basics; loving enemies, turning the cheek, etc. When we live in a country which claims to be ‘christian’ and see just the opposite taking place with the support and promotion of so-called ‘christian’ leaders, then I believe we have to speak up and challenge the use of Christ’s name for any such purposes and by such people, just like Paul confronted Peter ‘to his face’ when he was swayed into supporting the christian Zionists/Pharisees of his time.

Did you know that the Lubavitch/Chabad Jews have, since 1994 or 1995, put Gentiles under their version of a Gentile Law called the Noahide Law? Check and see if this is not true:

Whereas Congress recognizes the historical tradition of ethical values and principles which are the basis of civilized society and upon which our great Nation was founded;

Whereas these ethical values and principles have been the bedrock of society from the dawn of civilization, when they were known as the Seven Noahide Laws;

…

Whereas the Lubavitch movement has fostered and promoted these ethical values and principles throughout the world;

Whereas Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson, leader of the Lubavitch movement, is universally respected and revered and his eighty-ninth birthday falls on March 26, 1991;

Whereas in tribute to this great spiritual leader, `the rebbe’, this, his ninetieth year will be seen as one of `education and giving’, the year in which we turn to education and charity to return the world to the moral and ethical values contained in the Seven Noahide Laws; and

Whereas this will be reflected in an international scroll of honor signed by the President of the United States and other heads of state: Now, therefore, be it

Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That March 26, 1991, the start of the ninetieth year of Rabbi Menachem Schneerson, leader of the worldwide Lubavitch movement, is designated as `Education Day, U.S.A.’. The President is requested to issue a proclamation calling upon the people of the United States to observe such day with appropriate ceremonies and activities.
� US Congress, HR 104 Public Law 102-14 (1)

And then see what a Jewish commentator says about why we Gentiles should live under these laws here:
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/BenShapiro/2003/12/31/why_christianity_is_good_for_america_–_part_ii

Christian Zionism and Zionism are very dangerous.

It’s very important to realize that God will make the future despite us. He doesn’t need our help. It’s sad, funny also, that Christians seem to think that they can somehow usher in, or speed up God by supporting what they think will happen in the future. Instead, we should focus on Christ and what he stood for: Love your enemies; turn the other cheek, give to those who ask, don’t seek revenge, just to name a few. It’s wrong when somebody blows up a home, whether your a member of Hamas, or a Jewish soldier. Remember, ask yourself what Christ thinks about this. Would he be driving that bulldozer or igniting the explosives?

Also, current Israeli government is secular at best. Why do I as a Christian want to throw my support behind somebody who has no concern for God and his ways. My support is for Christ and those who want his ways.

It’s like abortion protesters. How in the world is picketing a clinic going to bring somebody to Christ. All it’s going to do is say: “we think you’re a dirty evil sinner.” Instead, tell them about Jesus. Don’t tell them about how wrong they are. Does anybody really think that a woman who has decided to get an abortion is going to see a protester and think: “ya, there right… abortion is wrong and I’m evil. I should become a Christian.” Connect the dots here please. It’s the compasion of Christ that leads people to salvation.

Lastly, we need to be aware that evil exists. The Prince of Persia… where did he go? The Bible tells us about him. Is he on vacation? Let’s remember that we are involved with things we don’t understand, therefore, don’t be so arrogant that you pick a side and assume that God is smiling down on you. Come on people, just do what Christ said and nothing more. We are entirely accountable for the things we support and the reputation we give Christianity.

So, if the promise was given to ‘Jews’, it would include all converts to Judaism. If it was given to the genetic descendents of Jacob (12 tribes of Israel/IsraelITES…not IsraelIS), then the genetic background of each Jew in Israel would need to be verified.

Just some points from the original post:

**The promise in Genesis 12 was given to Abraham (not ‘the Jews’, many of whom have converted through the years..as in Esther)

**Galatians 3:16 and folowing tells us that the covenant and promises were given to Abraham and to his ‘seed’ (singular), and that that seed is Jesus Christ..not the Israelites nor ‘the Jews’.

**Hebrews tells us that the Old Covenant was obsoleted by the New Covenant (Hebrews 8:6-13)

**Paul tells us about the two covenants in Galatians 4:22-26 and identifies the Jews (practicers of Judaism) as the figurative children of Hagar, and Christians as the figurative children of Sarah.

**The words ‘replacement theology, ‘rapture’ and Trinity are not in the Bible. In fact, the rapture doctrine was started fairly recently by John Darby and then promoted and expounded by Dr. Scofield of ‘Scofield Bible’ fame. No one can bring up a Scripture using any of these terms in the Bible.

**Literalism leads to big problems: Jesus is called the Lamb of God (and is not a baby sheep), and Revelation, among other pictorial language, talks about a dragon in front of a woman about to give birth, ready to devour her child when it is born. No christian Zionist would say this was a literal dragon nor a literal woman.

**’Praying for the peace of Jerusalem’ (Psalms 122:6) was for a specific time, asked for by David during his reign, and rebuked in the times of prophets like Jeremiah when the priests in his times were preaching peace. God chose to allow the destruction of Jerusalem and the removal of both the people of Israel and Judah to foreign nations.
Why, if we are to pray for the peace of Jerusalem at all times, does Zechariah 14, talking about the Lord’s coming and reigning, tell us that HE Himself will bring all nations to fight against it, that Jerusalem will be captured and half the city will go into exile?

Bottomline regarding any promise to land being given to a religious group: I can become a Jew. I cannot become an Israelite. If I become a Jew, am I entitled to a ‘piece of the rock’? Or do I need, rather, to prove my genetic link to the twelve tribes?

cristian Zionism is uninformed, disjointed and unbiblical.

Next time you talk to a christian Zionist, ask them:

**To show you where God gave ‘the state of Israel’ to ‘the Jews’ in Scripture. You will see Abraham and the Israelites, and you will see that the covenant had terms and that it was broken but no everlasting, unconditional promise of land to ‘the Jews’.

**To explain why the covenant of the land is everlasting when Revelation and II Peter tell us that the existing world will be destroyed.

**Why David was promised someone to sit on his throne forever, unconditionally, but then conditions were given when the promise was repeated by him to his son Solomon. (II Samuel 7:11-16, I Kings 2:3)

**Why followers of a religion who reject Jesus Christ would be ruling with Jesus Christ in the Millenium (another word not in the Bible). Tell them the Anti-Christ is never mentioned except in I John 2:18 and II John vs. 7 and anti-christ is described as “those ‘who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh” and “they went out from us but they did not really belong to us. ” If they tell you these are converted Jews, ask for Scripture chapter and verse and make sure it makes sense…not a spin. The Bible makes it clear that only a remnant will believe in Jesus Christ, not the entire.

If they use the scripture “And so all Israel will be saved.” in Romans 11:26, back them up in the chapter to verse 13 where Paul clearly states “I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I make much of my ministry IN THE HOPE THAT I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save SOME OF THEM.” They cannot explain (nor can anyone) what the ‘full number of the Gentiles’ coming in means (they can and do guess). But you can be sure of this…there is NO other way to right-standing with God according to the Bible than faith in Jesus Christ. And SO all Israel (and all OTHERS) will be saved.

**Why the state of Israel is not divided by tribes and where in the Bible Israel is ever referred to as a democracy. It never is.

**What happened to two of the 12 Israelite tribes listed in Revelation 7 that come up missing: Dan and Ephraim.

Without using the unbiblical term ‘replacement theology’, ask them to explain why they are right and Paul and Peter are wrong when they clearly tell us that Christians are the people of God, chosen, a holy nation, a royal priesthood (I Peter 2:9-10) and that a Jew is one inwardly, not outwardly and that Paul even more clearly states “Understand then, that those who believe are children of Abraham.” and that “those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith” and that “He redeemed us in order that the BLESSING GIVEN TO ABRAHAM might come to the GENTILES through CHRIST JESUS”. And that “If you belong to Christ, THEN ARE YOU ABRAHAM’S SEED AND HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE.” Galatians 3

When you ask them, what you will get are the usual buzzwords and spin: Replacement theology, anti-christ, rapture.

Buzzzzz…..

“II Peter 3:16b: “…..some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, AS THEY DO THE OTHER SCRIPTURES, to their own destruction. Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.”

The Bible is extremely clear that a right relationship with God comes by faith in Jesus Christ and not through some genetics or law-based religion. Jesus put no stock in genetics. He told those who proudly traced their ancestry to Abraham: “And do not think you can say to yourselves, ‘we have Abraham as our father’. I tell you that out of these STONES God can raise up children for Abraham.”

You may choose to follow and believe the theology of John Hagee. I’ll stick to the theology of Jesus, Peter, and Paul.

ONE MORE POINT:
If the democratic modern state of Israel was promised to the Jews in the Bible..it begs the question: Living in a time when the Romans were in control of Jerusalem and the Talmudic Jews of the New Covenant times were looking forward to the Messiah’s coming who would re-establish an earthly kingdom, why wouldn’t Jesus have reassured them that this was going to happen in the future as a ‘Jewish state’ where they (the Jews) would be gathered from all over the world to ‘Israel’?

Why wouldn’t Paul? James the Lord’s brother? John? Peter, surely? No. Only the christian Zionist proponents are feverishly trying to find ways to twist Scripture into such doctrine. Jesus and no writer of the New Covenant did. Not even the apostle John in the Revelation God gave to Jesus Christ about things ‘which must shortly come to pass.’

(I have started a blog which goes deeper into the subject of christian Zionism and I would like to post the link, if that’s permissible.)

I have read articles from both sides. Evangelical exegesis od Bible is very close to ICEJ position.

So that’s why I’m christian zionist too.

Miro

I really wish … I could see what the global situation would be if religion was out of it.

Just look at the 20th century. Stalin, Mao, Hitler, Pol-Pot, Castro, Kim-Il Song, Mussolini, Franco, Pinochette ect… It wasn’t much better.

I’ll agree that the world is convulsed in a religious struggle, but I disagree that it’s not about money, territory, poverty, wealth, ancient customs and modernity. I think it suspicious when people claim that their god has some type of interest in real estate. Religious leaders (and god knows who else) are using their followers to wage battles for money, power, and probably world domination – who knows, it wouldn’t surprise me. I really wish (which I could do in one hand and crap in the other and see which fills up first) I could see what the global situation would be if religion was out of it.

And, NO, the US should absolutely not be choosing up sides on this one. We need to take a secular role and maybe act as ref for a change.

Which “aspects” of Christian Zionism were “inflated” by Mr. Sanders?

And good one…way to to use the ICEJ info to point out how “reasonable” Christian Zionist ideology is. Did you read the article referenced: http://www.icej.org/article.php?id=2797 ? Yeah… ICEJ are “reasonable” to the extent that I have never heard anyone but extremist Israeli settlers express something similar.

Try reading what the people who live in these areas believe.

Cheers.

Any escalation in the war between Islam, Judaism and Christianity will not be the creation of the moderate believers.

That war will be between the religious extremists on both sides.

God help the world if the US decides its future direction on religious rather than secular grounds. And how far away is that?

Maybe the fact that chaos will ensue if Palestine is divided is simply an inevitable result of Muslim zealotry, as Mr. Robertson so elequently described (;P).

Consider the Muslim apocalyptic Eschatology:

The “Mahdi,” of which the Shia’t version has become featured in the news recently, is not actually the Islamic “messiah.” He is more like a John the Baptist type figure – A political leader who will rally the world’s Muslims and preach at Mecca when the messiah will be revealed. Guess who that Messiah is:

Jesus Christ.

Yes, Muslims (especially Sunnis) believe Jesus died (not on the cross, by the way) and was ressurected into heaven and is currently waiting in Paradise for the Qiamat (the Islamic Apocalypse), where he will be re-incarnated and lead the World’s Muslims into a final military battle against the Infidel, purifying the world for Allah.

A man claiming to be the second coming of christ will unite the world in an armed stuggle against his enemies, most of whom would be considered Christians. Sounds like something Pat robertson would claim is taken right out of the book of revelation.

Hold on to your hats! Woo hoo!