Comments on: Are large sums of cash illegal? http://donklephant.com/2006/08/21/are-large-sums-of-cash-illegal/ Big Teeth. Huge Ass. Surprisingly Reasonable. Tue, 14 Feb 2012 14:03:13 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: daniel http://donklephant.com/2006/08/21/are-large-sums-of-cash-illegal/comment-page-1/#comment-198324 daniel Fri, 26 Jan 2007 06:00:02 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2006/08/21/are-large-sums-of-cash-illegal/#comment-198324 can someone actually explain what freedom means i cant seem to understand teh difference between usa and other countries can someone actually explain what freedom means i cant seem to understand teh difference between usa and other countries

]]> By: DosPeros http://donklephant.com/2006/08/21/are-large-sums-of-cash-illegal/comment-page-1/#comment-64091 DosPeros Fri, 25 Aug 2006 19:32:59 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2006/08/21/are-large-sums-of-cash-illegal/#comment-64091 Here's a case in Hew Hampshire where the Defendant was ACQUITTED of the charges and the NH Supreme Court of Assholes ruled that the police could keep the CD's they seized from the Defendant which were the subject of the crime. http://unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=Police+property:+It%E2%80%99s+finders+keepers+in+NH&articleId=c2807a58-75ed-4972-8ab9-caec6bbbb979 Here’s a case in Hew Hampshire where the Defendant was ACQUITTED of the charges and the NH Supreme Court of Assholes ruled that the police could keep the CD’s they seized from the Defendant which were the subject of the crime.

http://unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=Police+property:+It%E2%80%99s+finders+keepers+in+NH&articleId=c2807a58-75ed-4972-8ab9-caec6bbbb979

]]> By: DosPeros http://donklephant.com/2006/08/21/are-large-sums-of-cash-illegal/comment-page-1/#comment-63145 DosPeros Tue, 22 Aug 2006 13:54:52 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2006/08/21/are-large-sums-of-cash-illegal/#comment-63145 I've been a member of the FEAR (Forfeiture Endangers American Rights) listserv for several years and I have recently started doing more criminal defense of late. Horror stories like you couldn't believe are abound. This was just cash, but the Feds & states routinely take homes, real property, automobiles, boats, you name it. It is fascinating economics as the law enforcement agencies get a cut of the loot that they seize and the courts forfeit. So here is what we have: An incentive system for law enforcement officers to bust people. Now I find that pernicious in terms of ticket quotas, but forfeiture, as Justin would say...Jeeeeeeeesuz. Is it any kind of deterrent to the Pablo's out there? Don't all laugh at once. If anything, I would bet, that the scale of drug sales from any given drug dealer increases after forfeiture to compensate for the lost property. It encourages cash transfers, off shore banking, money laundering - basically, forfeiture makes it HARDER to investigate the drug market, because it encourages drug dealers not to use the normal channels of commerce. I’ve been a member of the FEAR (Forfeiture Endangers American Rights) listserv for several years and I have recently started doing more criminal defense of late. Horror stories like you couldn’t believe are abound. This was just cash, but the Feds & states routinely take homes, real property, automobiles, boats, you name it. It is fascinating economics as the law enforcement agencies get a cut of the loot that they seize and the courts forfeit. So here is what we have: An incentive system for law enforcement officers to bust people. Now I find that pernicious in terms of ticket quotas, but forfeiture, as Justin would say…Jeeeeeeeesuz. Is it any kind of deterrent to the Pablo’s out there? Don’t all laugh at once. If anything, I would bet, that the scale of drug sales from any given drug dealer increases after forfeiture to compensate for the lost property. It encourages cash transfers, off shore banking, money laundering – basically, forfeiture makes it HARDER to investigate the drug market, because it encourages drug dealers not to use the normal channels of commerce.

]]> By: BrianOfAtlanta http://donklephant.com/2006/08/21/are-large-sums-of-cash-illegal/comment-page-1/#comment-63044 BrianOfAtlanta Tue, 22 Aug 2006 02:49:00 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2006/08/21/are-large-sums-of-cash-illegal/#comment-63044 "Preponderance of evidence." Does that mean the number of barks by the police dog? “Preponderance of evidence.” Does that mean the number of barks by the police dog?

]]> By: Kevin http://donklephant.com/2006/08/21/are-large-sums-of-cash-illegal/comment-page-1/#comment-63041 Kevin Tue, 22 Aug 2006 02:37:17 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2006/08/21/are-large-sums-of-cash-illegal/#comment-63041 Thanks for the link Dos (I missed yours the first time I read this Sean). Seeing how they built up this ruling scares the hell out of me. Each judgement they sited was like a step down a path that I really don't want to see this country take. If it takes 0 evidence and some suspicion to confiscate $125K, what's next? Thanks for the link Dos (I missed yours the first time I read this Sean). Seeing how they built up this ruling scares the hell out of me. Each judgement they sited was like a step down a path that I really don’t want to see this country take. If it takes 0 evidence and some suspicion to confiscate $125K, what’s next?

]]> By: Walrus http://donklephant.com/2006/08/21/are-large-sums-of-cash-illegal/comment-page-1/#comment-63037 Walrus Tue, 22 Aug 2006 02:26:12 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2006/08/21/are-large-sums-of-cash-illegal/#comment-63037 So much for the presumption of innocence. So much for the presumption of innocence.

]]> By: Sean Aqui http://donklephant.com/2006/08/21/are-large-sums-of-cash-illegal/comment-page-1/#comment-63026 Sean Aqui Tue, 22 Aug 2006 02:06:04 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2006/08/21/are-large-sums-of-cash-illegal/#comment-63026 Thanks, Dos. I meant to ask for your opinion. BTW, the court's opinion is also reachable (in pdf form) from my link. This would seem take "preponderance of evidence" to a new height of silliness, doesn't it? No drugs found, no evidence of a crime to which to connect the money. Thanks, Dos. I meant to ask for your opinion.

BTW, the court’s opinion is also reachable (in pdf form) from my link.

This would seem take “preponderance of evidence” to a new height of silliness, doesn’t it? No drugs found, no evidence of a crime to which to connect the money.

]]> By: DosPeros http://donklephant.com/2006/08/21/are-large-sums-of-cash-illegal/comment-page-1/#comment-63013 DosPeros Tue, 22 Aug 2006 01:13:58 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2006/08/21/are-large-sums-of-cash-illegal/#comment-63013 The Criminal Asset Forfeiture Reform Act of 2000 establishes that the gov't only has to prove by a preponderance of the evidence, not "beyond a reasonable doubt." So the standard for gov't forfeiture is the same standard for the personal injury attorney proving a slip 'n fall -- not real high. But look people, this is nothing new. The gov't has been taking property for a long damn time. Forfeiture law started with admiralty law. The War on Drugs has merely added a huge revenue source to tempt law enforcement. The War on Drugs has perverted, twisted, and deranged this country this countries relationship with its most prized values. It has exacerbated racial hostilities. It creates criminals were no criminals would otherwise exist. It creates a criminal market. It polarizes the governed from the government. It has militarized the police, who use to be part of the community. In every respect, the War on Drugs is a HUGE failure. This is just one small example. It is a travesty, far worse than the War in Iraq -- American citizens are turned into insurgents in our country. Overturn CAFRA! Please, educate yourself by reading the opinion itself. Do Not Rely on Secondary Sources. http://www.ca8.uscourts.gov/opns/opFrame.html The Criminal Asset Forfeiture Reform Act of 2000 establishes that the gov’t only has to prove by a preponderance of the evidence, not “beyond a reasonable doubt.” So the standard for gov’t forfeiture is the same standard for the personal injury attorney proving a slip ‘n fall — not real high.

But look people, this is nothing new. The gov’t has been taking property for a long damn time. Forfeiture law started with admiralty law. The War on Drugs has merely added a huge revenue source to tempt law enforcement.

The War on Drugs has perverted, twisted, and deranged this country this countries relationship with its most prized values. It has exacerbated racial hostilities. It creates criminals were no criminals would otherwise exist. It creates a criminal market. It polarizes the governed from the government. It has militarized the police, who use to be part of the community. In every respect, the War on Drugs is a HUGE failure. This is just one small example.

It is a travesty, far worse than the War in Iraq — American citizens are turned into insurgents in our country. Overturn CAFRA!

Please, educate yourself by reading the opinion itself. Do Not Rely on Secondary Sources. http://www.ca8.uscourts.gov/opns/opFrame.html

]]> By: Tony http://donklephant.com/2006/08/21/are-large-sums-of-cash-illegal/comment-page-1/#comment-63000 Tony Mon, 21 Aug 2006 23:32:12 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2006/08/21/are-large-sums-of-cash-illegal/#comment-63000 THIS IS AN OUTRAGE! IN CIVICS CLASS MY CHILDHOOD TEACHERS TAUGHT US ABOUT THIS CRAZY CONCEPT CALLED "BURDEN OF PROOF." THIS MAN COMMITTED NO CRIME. THE GOVERNMENT HAD NO EVIDENCE THAT A CRIME WAS COMMITTED. MR. GONZOLEZ WAS GUILTY UNTIL PROVEN INNOCENT. NOW HIS LIFE IS DESTROYED. THIS IS AN OUTRAGE! IN CIVICS CLASS MY CHILDHOOD TEACHERS TAUGHT US ABOUT THIS CRAZY CONCEPT CALLED “BURDEN OF PROOF.” THIS MAN COMMITTED NO CRIME. THE GOVERNMENT HAD NO EVIDENCE THAT A CRIME WAS COMMITTED. MR. GONZOLEZ WAS GUILTY UNTIL PROVEN INNOCENT. NOW HIS LIFE IS DESTROYED.

]]> By: Sean Aqui http://donklephant.com/2006/08/21/are-large-sums-of-cash-illegal/comment-page-1/#comment-62993 Sean Aqui Mon, 21 Aug 2006 22:56:13 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2006/08/21/are-large-sums-of-cash-illegal/#comment-62993 I agree that the circumstances are suspicious. But even if his story is full of holes, shouldn't the government have to actually prove a crime before they can confiscate property? I agree that the circumstances are suspicious. But even if his story is full of holes, shouldn’t the government have to actually prove a crime before they can confiscate property?

]]> By: Brian in MA http://donklephant.com/2006/08/21/are-large-sums-of-cash-illegal/comment-page-1/#comment-62992 Brian in MA Mon, 21 Aug 2006 22:45:22 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2006/08/21/are-large-sums-of-cash-illegal/#comment-62992 Hoo-rah police state. Yeah, driving around with a briefcase full of cash is suspicious, however: It also seems shady. I mean, you pull a guy over for speeding, and then ask whats in his briefcase? Sure, his name may not be on the rental car, but the subsequent explanation for his story apparently has no holes. Police, as far as I'm concerned, should only be getting money from government appropriations and actual crimes, not money they confiscated from a smelly old rental car and a brirfcase, with no evidence of any malicious activity by the person in possession of the briefcase other than speeding. I speed all the time, in Massachusetts it is called "going with the flow of traffic", which is also traveling at 70-80 MPH (on a slow day). Hoo-rah police state. Yeah, driving around with a briefcase full of cash is suspicious, however:

It also seems shady. I mean, you pull a guy over for speeding, and then ask whats in his briefcase? Sure, his name may not be on the rental car, but the subsequent explanation for his story apparently has no holes. Police, as far as I’m concerned, should only be getting money from government appropriations and actual crimes, not money they confiscated from a smelly old rental car and a brirfcase, with no evidence of any malicious activity by the person in possession of the briefcase other than speeding. I speed all the time, in Massachusetts it is called “going with the flow of traffic”, which is also traveling at 70-80 MPH (on a slow day).

]]> By: Kevin http://donklephant.com/2006/08/21/are-large-sums-of-cash-illegal/comment-page-1/#comment-62989 Kevin Mon, 21 Aug 2006 22:24:38 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2006/08/21/are-large-sums-of-cash-illegal/#comment-62989 I don't know whether or not to believe this guys story. But I'd rather he successfully do a drug deal than create the precedent that simply having a large sum of money in cash is a crime. This ruling sucks. I don’t know whether or not to believe this guys story. But I’d rather he successfully do a drug deal than create the precedent that simply having a large sum of money in cash is a crime. This ruling sucks.

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