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	<title>Comments on: About That 9/11 Docu-Drama&#8230;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://donklephant.com/2006/09/07/about-that-911-docu-drama/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://donklephant.com/2006/09/07/about-that-911-docu-drama/</link>
	<description>Big Teeth. Huge Ass. Surprisingly Reasonable.</description>
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		<title>By: Justin Gardner</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2006/09/07/about-that-911-docu-drama/comment-page-1/#comment-73577</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin Gardner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Sep 2006 21:26:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2006/09/07/about-that-911-docu-drama/#comment-73577</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I donÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t think I would want to watch a true documentary, the plain unvarnished as it happened truth because it would be just too plain depressingÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã‚Â¦ &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Hell, I do. Let&#039;s get that information out there. More fact and less opinion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I donÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t think I would want to watch a true documentary, the plain unvarnished as it happened truth because it would be just too plain depressingÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã‚Â¦ </p></blockquote>
<p>Hell, I do. Let&#8217;s get that information out there. More fact and less opinion.</p>
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		<title>By: probligo</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2006/09/07/about-that-911-docu-drama/comment-page-1/#comment-73568</link>
		<dc:creator>probligo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Sep 2006 20:36:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2006/09/07/about-that-911-docu-drama/#comment-73568</guid>
		<description>I did not go see Fahrenheit 911 because it was not factual.

I did not watch the CBC doco-thingy &quot;Path to 9/11&quot; because it was &quot;representational&quot;.  BTW local reviews seem to indicate that I did not waste my time watching the other rubbish over those two evenings.

I don&#039;t think I would want to watch a true documentary,  the plain unvarnished as it happened truth because it would be just too plain depressing...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I did not go see Fahrenheit 911 because it was not factual.</p>
<p>I did not watch the CBC doco-thingy &#8220;Path to 9/11&#8243; because it was &#8220;representational&#8221;.  BTW local reviews seem to indicate that I did not waste my time watching the other rubbish over those two evenings.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think I would want to watch a true documentary,  the plain unvarnished as it happened truth because it would be just too plain depressing&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Glen Wishard</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2006/09/07/about-that-911-docu-drama/comment-page-1/#comment-71612</link>
		<dc:creator>Glen Wishard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Sep 2006 18:37:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2006/09/07/about-that-911-docu-drama/#comment-71612</guid>
		<description>BTW - to elaborate on my first comment:  I&#039;m not saying that people who write historical drama have no responsibility to the truth.  They have an entirely different responsibility than journalists and &quot;straight&quot; historians do.  In some ways historical fiction demands an even higher standard of respect for truth, because the writer sets out to play with facts from the start and must do so with great caution.

Gore Vidal (whom I find to be totally insane in almost every context) does a fine job of this in many of his novels, especially &lt;i&gt;Lincoln&lt;/i&gt;.  The proof is in the pudding, and the reader (or viewer) must judge whether the writer is bringing things to life or merely inventing them.  There is good historical fiction, bad historical fiction, and &lt;a href=&quot;http://canisiratus.blogspot.com/2006/08/herodotus-on-history-life-and-split.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;my historical fiction.&lt;/a&gt;

Unfortunately, you might not get the chance to make this judgment, because it sounds like ABC will bow to criticism and censor the film.  The good news is that it will only take 15 minutes to watch it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BTW &#8211; to elaborate on my first comment:  I&#8217;m not saying that people who write historical drama have no responsibility to the truth.  They have an entirely different responsibility than journalists and &#8220;straight&#8221; historians do.  In some ways historical fiction demands an even higher standard of respect for truth, because the writer sets out to play with facts from the start and must do so with great caution.</p>
<p>Gore Vidal (whom I find to be totally insane in almost every context) does a fine job of this in many of his novels, especially <i>Lincoln</i>.  The proof is in the pudding, and the reader (or viewer) must judge whether the writer is bringing things to life or merely inventing them.  There is good historical fiction, bad historical fiction, and <a href="http://canisiratus.blogspot.com/2006/08/herodotus-on-history-life-and-split.html" >my historical fiction.</a></p>
<p>Unfortunately, you might not get the chance to make this judgment, because it sounds like ABC will bow to criticism and censor the film.  The good news is that it will only take 15 minutes to watch it.</p>
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		<title>By: Glen Wishard</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2006/09/07/about-that-911-docu-drama/comment-page-1/#comment-71599</link>
		<dc:creator>Glen Wishard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Sep 2006 17:58:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2006/09/07/about-that-911-docu-drama/#comment-71599</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Fahrenheit 9/11 was not presented to be a factual documentary with accompanying books for classrooms. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

But of course you are aware, if you have noticed several recent controversies, that this film has been shown in many schools.  Michael Moore has a TEACHER&#039;S GUIDE for it on his website, which you can download in PDF format.   Put on your hazard gear and go look for yourself.

&lt;blockquote&gt;The lessons and activities in this TEACHER&#039;S GUIDE are designed to help students develop a critical analytical ability, historical perspective, and applied math skills that will open their minds beyond the current issues covered in Fahrenheit 9/11. 

The individual units may easily be adapted to many levels and taught across the curriculum - Social Science, [History, Civics, Psychology, Sociology, Political Science, Economics] Language Arts, Humanities, Drama/Theatre, Film, ESL, Media/Journalism, Speech/Communications, Mathematics... 

You can review the guide page by page on the website, download a PDF of each section or the whole guide. 

So, go do that magic we call education! And, be sure to share, share, share! We would love to hear from you. Send your feedback or ideas to share with other educators to: teacher@michaelmoore.com &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Anybody have a problem with this?   I don&#039;t.  It&#039;s a free country.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Fahrenheit 9/11 was not presented to be a factual documentary with accompanying books for classrooms. </p></blockquote>
<p>But of course you are aware, if you have noticed several recent controversies, that this film has been shown in many schools.  Michael Moore has a TEACHER&#8217;S GUIDE for it on his website, which you can download in PDF format.   Put on your hazard gear and go look for yourself.</p>
<blockquote><p>The lessons and activities in this TEACHER&#8217;S GUIDE are designed to help students develop a critical analytical ability, historical perspective, and applied math skills that will open their minds beyond the current issues covered in Fahrenheit 9/11. </p>
<p>The individual units may easily be adapted to many levels and taught across the curriculum &#8211; Social Science, [History, Civics, Psychology, Sociology, Political Science, Economics] Language Arts, Humanities, Drama/Theatre, Film, ESL, Media/Journalism, Speech/Communications, Mathematics&#8230; </p>
<p>You can review the guide page by page on the website, download a PDF of each section or the whole guide. </p>
<p>So, go do that magic we call education! And, be sure to share, share, share! We would love to hear from you. Send your feedback or ideas to share with other educators to: <a href="mailto:teacher@michaelmoore.com">teacher@michaelmoore.com</a> </p></blockquote>
<p>Anybody have a problem with this?   I don&#8217;t.  It&#8217;s a free country.</p>
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		<title>By: Glen Wishard</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2006/09/07/about-that-911-docu-drama/comment-page-1/#comment-71598</link>
		<dc:creator>Glen Wishard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Sep 2006 17:51:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2006/09/07/about-that-911-docu-drama/#comment-71598</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;Fake, but accurate&quot;, however, is not a high enough standard. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Sorry, but Franks is off base here.  &quot;Fake, etc.&quot; is not a good enough standard for journalism or history or science.   It is a totally meaningless standard when applied to fiction.

Take, for example, Gore Vidal&#039;s fine novels &lt;i&gt;Lincoln&lt;/i&gt; and &lt;i&gt;Burr&lt;/i&gt;.  You can learn a lot of sound history from these books, but much of what is in them - especially the conversations and the who-said-what - is totally contrived.  That&#039;s because it&#039;s fiction, and the reader is expected to understand that.   

As for showing this series in schools, if ABC doesn&#039;t cancel it and burn all the tapes, it absolutely will be shown in schools.  Almost everything of this type is, in some school or another.   Regardless of its merits or demerits, this series will probably be kept out of a lot of schools because principals, school boards, or parents will object to it for political reasons.  Others will allow it, just as they might allow &lt;i&gt;Fahrenheit 9/11&lt;/i&gt; or &lt;i&gt;The Da Vinci Code&lt;/i&gt; to be shown to students.   It will be up to the teacher to apply appropriate disclaimers.   Some will, some won&#039;t.

No one has seen this thing yet, and so far we have the objections of Sandy Berger and Madelaine Albright.  Sandy Berger stole documents on this very subject from the National Archives, so perhaps that makes him a sort of expert.   It certainly makes him an expert on what he can get away with claiming, without being contradicted by documentary evidence.   You have to be a true believer to take people like Berger at their word.

As for Albright, someone warned Pakistan about the Afghanistan strike, according to the 9/11 Commission.   The film makes it out to be Albright, but she says it wasn&#039;t her.   So what?   If the Clinton adminstration veterans would fess up about what happened, we would know who did it, assuming it&#039;s even important.   Since they haven&#039;t and never will, the writer of fiction who dramatizes this event must choose a culprit, and this writer chose Albright.  (She should feel honored that they didn&#039;t just leave her out of the film.)  To say that the film is therefore fake or full of lies is, as I pointed out above, meaningless.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>&#8220;Fake, but accurate&#8221;, however, is not a high enough standard. </p></blockquote>
<p>Sorry, but Franks is off base here.  &#8220;Fake, etc.&#8221; is not a good enough standard for journalism or history or science.   It is a totally meaningless standard when applied to fiction.</p>
<p>Take, for example, Gore Vidal&#8217;s fine novels <i>Lincoln</i> and <i>Burr</i>.  You can learn a lot of sound history from these books, but much of what is in them &#8211; especially the conversations and the who-said-what &#8211; is totally contrived.  That&#8217;s because it&#8217;s fiction, and the reader is expected to understand that.   </p>
<p>As for showing this series in schools, if ABC doesn&#8217;t cancel it and burn all the tapes, it absolutely will be shown in schools.  Almost everything of this type is, in some school or another.   Regardless of its merits or demerits, this series will probably be kept out of a lot of schools because principals, school boards, or parents will object to it for political reasons.  Others will allow it, just as they might allow <i>Fahrenheit 9/11</i> or <i>The Da Vinci Code</i> to be shown to students.   It will be up to the teacher to apply appropriate disclaimers.   Some will, some won&#8217;t.</p>
<p>No one has seen this thing yet, and so far we have the objections of Sandy Berger and Madelaine Albright.  Sandy Berger stole documents on this very subject from the National Archives, so perhaps that makes him a sort of expert.   It certainly makes him an expert on what he can get away with claiming, without being contradicted by documentary evidence.   You have to be a true believer to take people like Berger at their word.</p>
<p>As for Albright, someone warned Pakistan about the Afghanistan strike, according to the 9/11 Commission.   The film makes it out to be Albright, but she says it wasn&#8217;t her.   So what?   If the Clinton adminstration veterans would fess up about what happened, we would know who did it, assuming it&#8217;s even important.   Since they haven&#8217;t and never will, the writer of fiction who dramatizes this event must choose a culprit, and this writer chose Albright.  (She should feel honored that they didn&#8217;t just leave her out of the film.)  To say that the film is therefore fake or full of lies is, as I pointed out above, meaningless.</p>
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		<title>By: Meredith</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2006/09/07/about-that-911-docu-drama/comment-page-1/#comment-71594</link>
		<dc:creator>Meredith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Sep 2006 17:48:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2006/09/07/about-that-911-docu-drama/#comment-71594</guid>
		<description>Idjut,
Fahrenheit 9/11 was not presented to be a factual documentary with accompanying books for classrooms.  It was a documentary, but a different style of documentary, and no one thought Michael Moore was going for true historical accuracy.

This is ABC, purporting to present a historical drama.  The thing about the classroom books I did not know about.  That takes this one step further.  Another reason you should all turn off your televisions!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Idjut,<br />
Fahrenheit 9/11 was not presented to be a factual documentary with accompanying books for classrooms.  It was a documentary, but a different style of documentary, and no one thought Michael Moore was going for true historical accuracy.</p>
<p>This is ABC, purporting to present a historical drama.  The thing about the classroom books I did not know about.  That takes this one step further.  Another reason you should all turn off your televisions!</p>
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		<title>By: JustAnotherIdjut</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2006/09/07/about-that-911-docu-drama/comment-page-1/#comment-71580</link>
		<dc:creator>JustAnotherIdjut</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Sep 2006 17:13:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2006/09/07/about-that-911-docu-drama/#comment-71580</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t remember any outcry from the dem&#039;s over Fahrenhiet 9/11.
Kinda funny how it&#039;s the left that&#039;s always so concerned about freedom of speech,  until it&#039;s something they don&#039;t want to hear.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t remember any outcry from the dem&#8217;s over Fahrenhiet 9/11.<br />
Kinda funny how it&#8217;s the left that&#8217;s always so concerned about freedom of speech,  until it&#8217;s something they don&#8217;t want to hear.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel DiRito</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2006/09/07/about-that-911-docu-drama/comment-page-1/#comment-71299</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel DiRito</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Sep 2006 23:22:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2006/09/07/about-that-911-docu-drama/#comment-71299</guid>
		<description>To view a tongue-in-cheek visual of the Bush administration&#039;s &quot;A Guide to the ABCÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s For Dummies&quot;...link here:

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.thoughttheater.com/2006/09/a_guide_to_the_abcs_by_dummies.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;www.thoughttheater.com&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To view a tongue-in-cheek visual of the Bush administration&#8217;s &#8220;A Guide to the ABCÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s For Dummies&#8221;&#8230;link here:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.thoughttheater.com/2006/09/a_guide_to_the_abcs_by_dummies.php" >http://www.thoughttheater.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: Walrus</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2006/09/07/about-that-911-docu-drama/comment-page-1/#comment-71298</link>
		<dc:creator>Walrus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Sep 2006 23:17:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2006/09/07/about-that-911-docu-drama/#comment-71298</guid>
		<description>I think it&#039;s highly irresponsible to play with facts in a documentary.  Or a docu-drama.  I even think it&#039;s irresponsible in a Hollywood movie, for crying out loud.  &lt;i&gt;A Beautiful Mind&lt;/i&gt; was a great movie, for instance, but it bears remarkably little resemblance to John Nash&#039;s actual life.  I personally wish they had changed the character&#039;s name.

Truth, with or without a capital T, shouldn&#039;t be messed with.  You can argue for the compression of characters perhaps, but then the resulting amalgam should not bear the name of a real person.

And there is no excuse whatsoever for false attributions in an educational piece.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it&#8217;s highly irresponsible to play with facts in a documentary.  Or a docu-drama.  I even think it&#8217;s irresponsible in a Hollywood movie, for crying out loud.  <i>A Beautiful Mind</i> was a great movie, for instance, but it bears remarkably little resemblance to John Nash&#8217;s actual life.  I personally wish they had changed the character&#8217;s name.</p>
<p>Truth, with or without a capital T, shouldn&#8217;t be messed with.  You can argue for the compression of characters perhaps, but then the resulting amalgam should not bear the name of a real person.</p>
<p>And there is no excuse whatsoever for false attributions in an educational piece.</p>
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