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	<title>Comments on: The American Conservative Mag Says &#8220;GOP Must Go&#8221;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://donklephant.com/2006/11/02/the-american-conservative-mag-says-gop-must-go/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://donklephant.com/2006/11/02/the-american-conservative-mag-says-gop-must-go/</link>
	<description>Big Teeth. Huge Ass. Surprisingly Reasonable.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 19:41:00 -0800</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Alan Stewart Carl</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2006/11/02/the-american-conservative-mag-says-gop-must-go/comment-page-1/#comment-96550</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Stewart Carl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Nov 2006 22:31:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2006/11/02/the-american-conservative-mag-says-gop-must-go/#comment-96550</guid>
		<description>Second graph, Buchanan says:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Former Wall Street Journal editor Max Boot kicked off the campaign. When these ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…â€œBuchananites toss around ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã‹Å“neoconservativeÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬?and cite names like Wolfowitz and CohenÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬?it sometimes sounds as if what they really mean is ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã‹Å“Jewish conservative.ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã‚? Yet Boot readily concedes that a passionate attachment to Israel is a ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…â€œkey tenet of neoconservatism.ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã‚? He also claims that the National Security Strategy of President Bush ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…â€œsounds as if it could have come straight out from the pages of Commentary magazine, the neocon bible.ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã‚? (For the uninitiated, Commentary, the bible in which Boot seeks divine guidance, is the monthly of the American Jewish Committee.)&lt;/blockquote&gt;

He begins by defending himself agains anti-semtic allegations but then still makes the effort to point out that Commentary is very important in the Bush administration and that is is a Jewish publication. 

My intent with the original comment was just to characterize the opinions of The American Conservative magazine ... paleo-conservatives are hardly the refuge of progressives and the tolerant minded. I didn&#039;t think it was too much a stretch to point out their problem with the war was its ties to Israel (via American Jews) --- which is different than most other people&#039;s problem with the war.

And, yeah, I guess I do get a hint of anti-semitism from what Buchanan writes--mainly because there are a lot more accurate criticisms of neocons that don&#039;t have anything to do with their support for Israel or their religion. Let&#039;s start with their overly rosy view of democracy and our ability to affect positive change with military might. THAT&#039;S a much bigger part of their ideology than is Israel. Claiming it&#039;s really all about Israel is a bit odd. And it would hardly be the first time Buchanan was suspected of being anti-semetic. The Democrats branded him as such during the 1992 campaign if you remember.

But, all that said, my intent wasn&#039;t to use that comment to delve into the existence (or appearance) of anti-semitism in paleo-con logic. Nor was my intent to brand all critics of Israel as anti-semetic. I applogize if I came off like some partisan hack.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Second graph, Buchanan says:</p>
<blockquote><p>Former Wall Street Journal editor Max Boot kicked off the campaign. When these ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…â€œBuchananites toss around ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã‹Å“neoconservativeÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬?and cite names like Wolfowitz and CohenÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬?it sometimes sounds as if what they really mean is ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã‹Å“Jewish conservative.ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã‚? Yet Boot readily concedes that a passionate attachment to Israel is a ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…â€œkey tenet of neoconservatism.ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã‚? He also claims that the National Security Strategy of President Bush ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…â€œsounds as if it could have come straight out from the pages of Commentary magazine, the neocon bible.ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã‚? (For the uninitiated, Commentary, the bible in which Boot seeks divine guidance, is the monthly of the American Jewish Committee.)</p></blockquote>
<p>He begins by defending himself agains anti-semtic allegations but then still makes the effort to point out that Commentary is very important in the Bush administration and that is is a Jewish publication. </p>
<p>My intent with the original comment was just to characterize the opinions of The American Conservative magazine &#8230; paleo-conservatives are hardly the refuge of progressives and the tolerant minded. I didn&#8217;t think it was too much a stretch to point out their problem with the war was its ties to Israel (via American Jews) &#8212; which is different than most other people&#8217;s problem with the war.</p>
<p>And, yeah, I guess I do get a hint of anti-semitism from what Buchanan writes&#8211;mainly because there are a lot more accurate criticisms of neocons that don&#8217;t have anything to do with their support for Israel or their religion. Let&#8217;s start with their overly rosy view of democracy and our ability to affect positive change with military might. THAT&#8217;S a much bigger part of their ideology than is Israel. Claiming it&#8217;s really all about Israel is a bit odd. And it would hardly be the first time Buchanan was suspected of being anti-semetic. The Democrats branded him as such during the 1992 campaign if you remember.</p>
<p>But, all that said, my intent wasn&#8217;t to use that comment to delve into the existence (or appearance) of anti-semitism in paleo-con logic. Nor was my intent to brand all critics of Israel as anti-semetic. I applogize if I came off like some partisan hack.</p>
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		<title>By: ChrisO</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2006/11/02/the-american-conservative-mag-says-gop-must-go/comment-page-1/#comment-96521</link>
		<dc:creator>ChrisO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Nov 2006 21:21:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2006/11/02/the-american-conservative-mag-says-gop-must-go/#comment-96521</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not defending Buchanan at all. I&#039;m pointing out how his remarks were skewed. And the anti-Semitism charges are used against more than just Buchanan. I see them trotted out regularly as a way of discrediting criticism of the neocons. I don&#039;t think you have to actually use the phrase &quot;anti-Semite&quot; when you say the paleo-Conservatives think the war in Iraq was a &quot;Jewish plot.&quot; I still challenge you to show me where in that article Buchanan characterizes the war as a Jewish plot. And please quote the part of the article where he points out &quot;right up front&quot; that many of the neocons are Jewish.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not defending Buchanan at all. I&#8217;m pointing out how his remarks were skewed. And the anti-Semitism charges are used against more than just Buchanan. I see them trotted out regularly as a way of discrediting criticism of the neocons. I don&#8217;t think you have to actually use the phrase &#8220;anti-Semite&#8221; when you say the paleo-Conservatives think the war in Iraq was a &#8220;Jewish plot.&#8221; I still challenge you to show me where in that article Buchanan characterizes the war as a Jewish plot. And please quote the part of the article where he points out &#8220;right up front&#8221; that many of the neocons are Jewish.</p>
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		<title>By: Alan Stewart Carl</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2006/11/02/the-american-conservative-mag-says-gop-must-go/comment-page-1/#comment-96396</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Stewart Carl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Nov 2006 17:07:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2006/11/02/the-american-conservative-mag-says-gop-must-go/#comment-96396</guid>
		<description>Chris, where did I use the word &quot;anti-semite?&quot; And what about Buchanan&#039;s article did I misrepresent? He does indeed believe we went into Iraq more for the cause of advancing Israeli interests than for the cause of advancing our own interests. He blames the neocons and points out, right up front, that many are Jewish. Although he says that their Jewishness has nothing to do with his opposition, he does mention it and he does seem to think that their religion has something to do with their strong support for Israel. Whether or not that has a wiff of ant-semetism is a debate for another post. I never mentioned anti-semetism nor accused Buchanan or the magazine of being anti-semetic.

Give me a break. I was making a point about how The American Conservative mag has a history of opposition to this war and the opinion Justin linked to is nothing new. I wasn&#039;t trying to secretly brand all opponents of Israel as anti-semites.

Don&#039;t waste too much breath defending Buchanan. The enemy of your enemy is not your friend.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris, where did I use the word &#8220;anti-semite?&#8221; And what about Buchanan&#8217;s article did I misrepresent? He does indeed believe we went into Iraq more for the cause of advancing Israeli interests than for the cause of advancing our own interests. He blames the neocons and points out, right up front, that many are Jewish. Although he says that their Jewishness has nothing to do with his opposition, he does mention it and he does seem to think that their religion has something to do with their strong support for Israel. Whether or not that has a wiff of ant-semetism is a debate for another post. I never mentioned anti-semetism nor accused Buchanan or the magazine of being anti-semetic.</p>
<p>Give me a break. I was making a point about how The American Conservative mag has a history of opposition to this war and the opinion Justin linked to is nothing new. I wasn&#8217;t trying to secretly brand all opponents of Israel as anti-semites.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t waste too much breath defending Buchanan. The enemy of your enemy is not your friend.</p>
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		<title>By: ChrisO</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2006/11/02/the-american-conservative-mag-says-gop-must-go/comment-page-1/#comment-96346</link>
		<dc:creator>ChrisO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Nov 2006 14:52:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2006/11/02/the-american-conservative-mag-says-gop-must-go/#comment-96346</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m sorry Alan, but your posts reads like a continuation of the campaign to smear anyone who criticizes our relationship with Israel with the &quot;anti-Semite&quot; label. There is a real cabal of neoconservatives who have effectively taken control of the Republican party, and who are the chief architects of the war in Iraq. Yet every time someone uses the term &quot;neoconservative,&quot; we hear people like you whispering &quot;He really means Jewish.&quot; This attempt to shut down debate about our relationship with Israel is really despicable. I&#039;m not Jewish, but I like to think that I&#039;m not an anti-Semite, either, considering that my wife and daughters are Jews. I read the article you linked to, and nowhere did I see Buchanan refer to the neocons as Jews. Yet you clearly and deliberately say that the &quot;paleo-conservatives&quot; oppose the war in Iraq because it is a &quot;Jewish plot hatched by the Jewish neocons.&quot; It&#039;s no one&#039;s fault that many of the leading neocons are Jewish. Simply naming people who happen to be Jews hardly amounts to anti-Semitism.

It&#039;s also no secret that American Jews have unique ties to Israel. I&#039;d be hard pressed to identify another group that is so strongly involved with a foreign government politically, especially since many of Israel&#039;s supporters have never lived there. We see condemnations of protesters waving Mexican flags in Los Angeles, yet we are somehow supposed to remain silent about a group that clearly feels US foreign policy should always be based at least in part on what&#039;s good for Israel. What other country enjoys this kind of consideration? I would argue that France and Germany have been long time allies of the US, but I didn&#039;t see any charges of anti-French bias when French wine was being poured down sewers after the start of the Iraq war. 

As Buchanan makes clear (and I&#039;m far from a Buchanan supporter) Israel is a long time and valued ally of the US, and we have made a committment to aid them whenever possible. Yet they are still a foreign government, and need to be treated as such. Their interests are not automatically our interests. You may disagree with me, but voicing my opinion doesn&#039;t make me an anti-Semite. I&#039;m sure many in Israel would want us to launch air strikes now against Iran&#039;s nuclear capabilities. Should we go along with that without regard for what is in our best interest?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m sorry Alan, but your posts reads like a continuation of the campaign to smear anyone who criticizes our relationship with Israel with the &#8220;anti-Semite&#8221; label. There is a real cabal of neoconservatives who have effectively taken control of the Republican party, and who are the chief architects of the war in Iraq. Yet every time someone uses the term &#8220;neoconservative,&#8221; we hear people like you whispering &#8220;He really means Jewish.&#8221; This attempt to shut down debate about our relationship with Israel is really despicable. I&#8217;m not Jewish, but I like to think that I&#8217;m not an anti-Semite, either, considering that my wife and daughters are Jews. I read the article you linked to, and nowhere did I see Buchanan refer to the neocons as Jews. Yet you clearly and deliberately say that the &#8220;paleo-conservatives&#8221; oppose the war in Iraq because it is a &#8220;Jewish plot hatched by the Jewish neocons.&#8221; It&#8217;s no one&#8217;s fault that many of the leading neocons are Jewish. Simply naming people who happen to be Jews hardly amounts to anti-Semitism.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s also no secret that American Jews have unique ties to Israel. I&#8217;d be hard pressed to identify another group that is so strongly involved with a foreign government politically, especially since many of Israel&#8217;s supporters have never lived there. We see condemnations of protesters waving Mexican flags in Los Angeles, yet we are somehow supposed to remain silent about a group that clearly feels US foreign policy should always be based at least in part on what&#8217;s good for Israel. What other country enjoys this kind of consideration? I would argue that France and Germany have been long time allies of the US, but I didn&#8217;t see any charges of anti-French bias when French wine was being poured down sewers after the start of the Iraq war. </p>
<p>As Buchanan makes clear (and I&#8217;m far from a Buchanan supporter) Israel is a long time and valued ally of the US, and we have made a committment to aid them whenever possible. Yet they are still a foreign government, and need to be treated as such. Their interests are not automatically our interests. You may disagree with me, but voicing my opinion doesn&#8217;t make me an anti-Semite. I&#8217;m sure many in Israel would want us to launch air strikes now against Iran&#8217;s nuclear capabilities. Should we go along with that without regard for what is in our best interest?</p>
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		<title>By: Alan Stewart Carl</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2006/11/02/the-american-conservative-mag-says-gop-must-go/comment-page-1/#comment-96142</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Stewart Carl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Nov 2006 06:36:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2006/11/02/the-american-conservative-mag-says-gop-must-go/#comment-96142</guid>
		<description>This isn&#039;t a new turn for The American Conservative magazine. They &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amconmag.com/2004_11_08/cover1.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;endorsed John Kerry&lt;/a&gt; in 2004. They are the voice of paleo-conservatives who never supported this war because they are 1) isolationist and 2) think the Iraq war was basically a Jewish plot hatched by the Jewish neocons to fulfill Israeli wishes (Pat Buchanan wrote &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amconmag.com/03_24_03/cover.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this for them&lt;/a&gt; at the start of the Iraq war). It&#039;s dramatic to attach &quot;The Amercian Conservative&quot; to this kind of opinion -- but it&#039;s nothing new from the magazine and nothing that&#039;s going to change minds.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This isn&#8217;t a new turn for The American Conservative magazine. They <a href="http://www.amconmag.com/2004_11_08/cover1.html" rel="nofollow">endorsed John Kerry</a> in 2004. They are the voice of paleo-conservatives who never supported this war because they are 1) isolationist and 2) think the Iraq war was basically a Jewish plot hatched by the Jewish neocons to fulfill Israeli wishes (Pat Buchanan wrote <a href="http://www.amconmag.com/03_24_03/cover.html" rel="nofollow">this for them</a> at the start of the Iraq war). It&#8217;s dramatic to attach &#8220;The Amercian Conservative&#8221; to this kind of opinion &#8212; but it&#8217;s nothing new from the magazine and nothing that&#8217;s going to change minds.</p>
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		<title>By: Dierdre Bannon</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2006/11/02/the-american-conservative-mag-says-gop-must-go/comment-page-1/#comment-95990</link>
		<dc:creator>Dierdre Bannon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Nov 2006 02:43:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2006/11/02/the-american-conservative-mag-says-gop-must-go/#comment-95990</guid>
		<description>And here I always thought of myself as a conservative.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And here I always thought of myself as a conservative.</p>
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		<title>By: grognard</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2006/11/02/the-american-conservative-mag-says-gop-must-go/comment-page-1/#comment-95988</link>
		<dc:creator>grognard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Nov 2006 02:41:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2006/11/02/the-american-conservative-mag-says-gop-must-go/#comment-95988</guid>
		<description>Ummm, wow is an understatement. Are they part of the ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…â€œdrive by mediaÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã‚? now?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ummm, wow is an understatement. Are they part of the ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…â€œdrive by mediaÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã‚? now?</p>
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		<title>By: Nick</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2006/11/02/the-american-conservative-mag-says-gop-must-go/comment-page-1/#comment-95984</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Nov 2006 02:25:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2006/11/02/the-american-conservative-mag-says-gop-must-go/#comment-95984</guid>
		<description>6) They hate America and want to make sweet, sweet love to Osama.

That would make them homosexuals too... bonus.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>6) They hate America and want to make sweet, sweet love to Osama.</p>
<p>That would make them homosexuals too&#8230; bonus.</p>
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		<title>By: wj</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2006/11/02/the-american-conservative-mag-says-gop-must-go/comment-page-1/#comment-95912</link>
		<dc:creator>wj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Nov 2006 01:02:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2006/11/02/the-american-conservative-mag-says-gop-must-go/#comment-95912</guid>
		<description>Tak nailed it!  LOL</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tak nailed it!  LOL</p>
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		<title>By: m.takhallus</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2006/11/02/the-american-conservative-mag-says-gop-must-go/comment-page-1/#comment-95830</link>
		<dc:creator>m.takhallus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Nov 2006 23:56:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2006/11/02/the-american-conservative-mag-says-gop-must-go/#comment-95830</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s what we know for sure:

1) The editors of American Conservative are &quot;Leftists.&quot;
2) They hate America.
3) They are suffering from Bush Derangement Syndrome.
4) They hate America and support terrorism.
5) They have been brainwashed by the New York Times and CNN.
6) They hate America and want to make sweet, sweet love to Osama.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s what we know for sure:</p>
<p>1) The editors of American Conservative are &#8220;Leftists.&#8221;<br />
2) They hate America.<br />
3) They are suffering from Bush Derangement Syndrome.<br />
4) They hate America and support terrorism.<br />
5) They have been brainwashed by the New York Times and CNN.<br />
6) They hate America and want to make sweet, sweet love to Osama.</p>
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