Comments on: Evangelicals Starting To Lose Faith In GOP? http://donklephant.com/2006/11/12/evangelicals-starting-to-lose-faith-in-gop/ Big Teeth. Huge Ass. Surprisingly Reasonable. Sun, 22 Nov 2009 05:46:37 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Vicki Frei http://donklephant.com/2006/11/12/evangelicals-starting-to-lose-faith-in-gop/comment-page-1/#comment-109719 Vicki Frei Mon, 13 Nov 2006 02:13:21 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2006/11/12/evangelicals-starting-to-lose-faith-in-gop/#comment-109719 I would just dearly love for this country and its citizens, religious organizations, and political parties to grow up, get past narrow evangelical quasi-religious mid-victorian (much less puritan!) attitudinalizing and admit that ALL PEOPLE deserve the same considerations and constitutional rights no matter within which particular niche they fall - no matter race, culture, religion, sexual orientation, gender.... Ultimately, it is no one individual's right to pontificate or legislate about any other individual's religious belief and the expression thereof, sexual choice and the expression thereof (leaving out before you excoriate me the obvious - children and their abuse in porn etc.), or political leanings and the expression thereof. Further, it is certainly not any political party's place, nor even more tellingly, any religion's place, to do so. Each person in our country is responsible for himmerself alone. Why should anyone else attempt to make life decisions for himmer? We all are bound by laws which we understand (we *think*....) keep us safe and keep others safe as well. That's truthfully all that most of us expect (or SHOULD expect) from government. Unfortunately it seems that "most of us" aren't willing to stand up for that belief. We abrogate our voices to whatever authority figure fits in our comfort zones, whether it's the president, the pastor, or the local beat cop. We are lazy, afraid, unwilling to be different, unable to express our thoughts and feelings, angry, disaffected.... When will each of us stand up for what EACH OF US INDIVIDUALLY believes to be true within our hearts? “One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors.â€Â? -Plato The new kvetch in town…. I would just dearly love for this country and its citizens, religious organizations, and political parties to grow up, get past narrow evangelical quasi-religious mid-victorian (much less puritan!) attitudinalizing and admit that ALL PEOPLE deserve the same considerations and constitutional rights no matter within which particular niche they fall – no matter race, culture, religion, sexual orientation, gender….

Ultimately, it is no one individual’s right to pontificate or legislate about any other individual’s religious belief and the expression thereof, sexual choice and the expression thereof (leaving out before you excoriate me the obvious – children and their abuse in porn etc.), or political leanings and the expression thereof. Further, it is certainly not any political party’s place, nor even more tellingly, any religion’s place, to do so.

Each person in our country is responsible for himmerself alone. Why should anyone else attempt to make life decisions for himmer? We all are bound by laws which we understand (we *think*….) keep us safe and keep others safe as well. That’s truthfully all that most of us expect (or SHOULD expect) from government.

Unfortunately it seems that “most of us” aren’t willing to stand up for that belief. We abrogate our voices to whatever authority figure fits in our comfort zones, whether it’s the president, the pastor, or the local beat cop. We are lazy, afraid, unwilling to be different, unable to express our thoughts and feelings, angry, disaffected….

When will each of us stand up for what EACH OF US INDIVIDUALLY believes to be true within our hearts?

“One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors.�
-Plato

The new kvetch in town….

]]> By: GreenDreams http://donklephant.com/2006/11/12/evangelicals-starting-to-lose-faith-in-gop/comment-page-1/#comment-109718 GreenDreams Mon, 13 Nov 2006 02:12:48 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2006/11/12/evangelicals-starting-to-lose-faith-in-gop/#comment-109718 The defection of Evangelicals to the Democrats was on a pretty small scale, around three to 5%. I won't wade into the "whipping boy" debate, but I'm delighted to see discussion among Christians about a responsibility to the environment (which they call "Creation care"), to the poor and disadvantaged, and a growing realization that they've been duped into some pretty un-Jesus-like behavior by the GOP. The defection of Evangelicals to the Democrats was on a pretty small scale, around three to 5%. I won’t wade into the “whipping boy” debate, but I’m delighted to see discussion among Christians about a responsibility to the environment (which they call “Creation care”), to the poor and disadvantaged, and a growing realization that they’ve been duped into some pretty un-Jesus-like behavior by the GOP.

]]> By: BenG http://donklephant.com/2006/11/12/evangelicals-starting-to-lose-faith-in-gop/comment-page-1/#comment-109616 BenG Mon, 13 Nov 2006 00:44:10 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2006/11/12/evangelicals-starting-to-lose-faith-in-gop/#comment-109616 Wow; This is like the old 1st grade game we used to play. Sit around in a circle, the teacher whispers something in ones ear, and in turn each child tries to repeat it to the next until, at the end everyone laughs at the deranged version of the original message. The original post is about the possibility that the GOP is loosing their religious base, and a breif reference to a reason why; ex Rev Haggart, and ex Sen. Foley, both standing hi & mighty against Gays, advancing anti-gay issues, then being caught in Gay relationships, seemingly hypocritical of what they believe and , more importantly, effecting people in a negative way. The sinful thing here isn't the evangelical gay-bashing, it's the way the GOP has used these volatile issues to manipulate the voters-you and I-to win votes. So, instead of debating important issues and deciding which way to go to get WHAT WE NEED, we sit here slappin each other in the face, and nothing changes... Wow; This is like the old 1st grade game we used to play. Sit around in a circle, the teacher whispers something in ones ear, and in turn each child tries to repeat it to the next until, at the end everyone laughs at the deranged version of the original message.
The original post is about the possibility that the GOP is loosing their religious base, and a breif reference to a reason why; ex Rev Haggart, and ex Sen. Foley, both standing hi & mighty against Gays, advancing anti-gay issues, then being caught in Gay relationships, seemingly hypocritical of what they believe and , more importantly, effecting people in a negative way.
The sinful thing here isn’t the evangelical gay-bashing, it’s the way the GOP has used these volatile issues to manipulate the voters-you and I-to win votes. So, instead of debating important issues and deciding which way to go to get WHAT WE NEED, we sit here slappin each other in the face, and nothing changes…

]]> By: BenG http://donklephant.com/2006/11/12/evangelicals-starting-to-lose-faith-in-gop/comment-page-1/#comment-109617 BenG Mon, 13 Nov 2006 00:44:10 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2006/11/12/evangelicals-starting-to-lose-faith-in-gop/#comment-109617 Wow; This is like the old 1st grade game we used to play. Sit around in a circle, the teacher whispers something in ones ear, and in turn each child tries to repeat it to the next until, at the end everyone laughs at the deranged version of the original message. The original post is about the possibility that the GOP is loosing their religious base, and a breif reference to a reason why; ex Rev Haggart, and ex Sen. Foley, both standing hi & mighty against Gays, advancing anti-gay issues, then being caught in Gay relationships, seemingly hypocritical of what they believe and , more importantly, effecting people in a negative way. The sinful thing here isn't the evangelical gay-bashing, it's the way the GOP has used these volatile issues to manipulate the voters-you and I-to win votes. So, instead of debating important issues and deciding which way to go to get WHAT WE NEED, we sit here slappin each other in the face, and nothing changes... Wow; This is like the old 1st grade game we used to play. Sit around in a circle, the teacher whispers something in ones ear, and in turn each child tries to repeat it to the next until, at the end everyone laughs at the deranged version of the original message.
The original post is about the possibility that the GOP is loosing their religious base, and a breif reference to a reason why; ex Rev Haggart, and ex Sen. Foley, both standing hi & mighty against Gays, advancing anti-gay issues, then being caught in Gay relationships, seemingly hypocritical of what they believe and , more importantly, effecting people in a negative way.
The sinful thing here isn’t the evangelical gay-bashing, it’s the way the GOP has used these volatile issues to manipulate the voters-you and I-to win votes. So, instead of debating important issues and deciding which way to go to get WHAT WE NEED, we sit here slappin each other in the face, and nothing changes…

]]> By: sleipner http://donklephant.com/2006/11/12/evangelicals-starting-to-lose-faith-in-gop/comment-page-1/#comment-109408 sleipner Sun, 12 Nov 2006 21:56:42 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2006/11/12/evangelicals-starting-to-lose-faith-in-gop/#comment-109408 Well, just 50 years ago there were quite a few people that thought that black people shouldn't marry white people, and in fact it was even accepted as justified and rational. Pretty much the same thing is happening today. Our society is finally realizing that one particular minority is being treated as less "equal" than everyone else. Granted, there have been huge strides towards equality in the past generation - pre Stonewall gays would often be rounded up by the police in a bar raid, thrown into jail, and have their names published in the local paper, destroying many lives and families. Back a decade or two further, it was not uncommon for gays to be forceably committed to insane asylums, where they were "treated" with such methods as electroshock and drug aversion therapy, and even lobotomy. Of course in some backwards homophobic areas of the country, kids getting involuntarily committed to "ex-gay" brainwashing centers still happens today. Many black people have conniption fits when gays liken their struggles for equality with the equal rights movement, saying, "you were never slaves!" Well, true there were worse atrocities associated with slavery, but that was nearly 150 years ago. Atrocities committed against gays are much more recent, and ongoing today. Thanks to evangelical anti-gay propaganda, hate crimes against gays are increasing faster than any other category, and are the highest on a per-capita basis of any minority group. Get over it already...you have a right to not like gay people, but you do NOT have a right to deny gay people the constitutional rights everyone else gets automatically. Well, just 50 years ago there were quite a few people that thought that black people shouldn’t marry white people, and in fact it was even accepted as justified and rational. Pretty much the same thing is happening today. Our society is finally realizing that one particular minority is being treated as less “equal” than everyone else.

Granted, there have been huge strides towards equality in the past generation – pre Stonewall gays would often be rounded up by the police in a bar raid, thrown into jail, and have their names published in the local paper, destroying many lives and families. Back a decade or two further, it was not uncommon for gays to be forceably committed to insane asylums, where they were “treated” with such methods as electroshock and drug aversion therapy, and even lobotomy. Of course in some backwards homophobic areas of the country, kids getting involuntarily committed to “ex-gay” brainwashing centers still happens today.

Many black people have conniption fits when gays liken their struggles for equality with the equal rights movement, saying, “you were never slaves!” Well, true there were worse atrocities associated with slavery, but that was nearly 150 years ago. Atrocities committed against gays are much more recent, and ongoing today. Thanks to evangelical anti-gay propaganda, hate crimes against gays are increasing faster than any other category, and are the highest on a per-capita basis of any minority group.

Get over it already…you have a right to not like gay people, but you do NOT have a right to deny gay people the constitutional rights everyone else gets automatically.

]]> By: DosPeros http://donklephant.com/2006/11/12/evangelicals-starting-to-lose-faith-in-gop/comment-page-1/#comment-109159 DosPeros Sun, 12 Nov 2006 20:07:54 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2006/11/12/evangelicals-starting-to-lose-faith-in-gop/#comment-109159 So everyone who disagrees with gay marriage is gay-bashing and hates gays? It takes two to tango, m.tak, and mass. & new jersey would suggests that maybe it isn't all about the gay-hating Evangelicals. So everyone who disagrees with gay marriage is gay-bashing and hates gays? It takes two to tango, m.tak, and mass. & new jersey would suggests that maybe it isn’t all about the gay-hating Evangelicals.

]]> By: m.takhallus http://donklephant.com/2006/11/12/evangelicals-starting-to-lose-faith-in-gop/comment-page-1/#comment-108864 m.takhallus Sun, 12 Nov 2006 17:13:45 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2006/11/12/evangelicals-starting-to-lose-faith-in-gop/#comment-108864 So, the Evangelicals haven't been attacking gay marriage and the so-called "homosexual agenda?" The GOP didn't craft the phrase "San Francisco liberals" and "San Francisco values" as blatant attempts to tie Democrats to gays and bring out the evangelical vote? The GOP doesn't place gay-bashing ammendments on ballots as a tactic to bring out the evangelical vote? The GOP in Tennessee didn't didn't race-bait to beat Harold Ford just as they did in South Carolina to stop McCain? If someone's wrongly dissing evangelicals, kids, it's starting with the GOP itself. They're the ones who assume that gay-bashing is the way to squeeze out dollars and votes from the evangelical base. The Democrats turn out their vote with minimum wage and stem cell initiatives, the GOP goes to gay-bashing. Facts on the ground. If you don't like it, talk to Karl Rove. So, the Evangelicals haven’t been attacking gay marriage and the so-called “homosexual agenda?”

The GOP didn’t craft the phrase “San Francisco liberals” and “San Francisco values” as blatant attempts to tie Democrats to gays and bring out the evangelical vote?

The GOP doesn’t place gay-bashing ammendments on ballots as a tactic to bring out the evangelical vote?

The GOP in Tennessee didn’t didn’t race-bait to beat Harold Ford just as they did in South Carolina to stop McCain?

If someone’s wrongly dissing evangelicals, kids, it’s starting with the GOP itself. They’re the ones who assume that gay-bashing is the way to squeeze out dollars and votes from the evangelical base. The Democrats turn out their vote with minimum wage and stem cell initiatives, the GOP goes to gay-bashing. Facts on the ground. If you don’t like it, talk to Karl Rove.

]]> By: DosPeros http://donklephant.com/2006/11/12/evangelicals-starting-to-lose-faith-in-gop/comment-page-1/#comment-108834 DosPeros Sun, 12 Nov 2006 16:35:35 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2006/11/12/evangelicals-starting-to-lose-faith-in-gop/#comment-108834 Far from being a **new** cheap shot: m.takhallus's comment is old to the point of being cartoonishly cliche'. Yes, the GOP is driven by hate, merely waiting to be focused upon the right victim group. I must say that I'm disappointed. Usually, you show a bit more creativity and flank your attack with some nuanced reasoning. I haven't really seen you pick up the torch of identity-politics...but I guess the election has had effect. Besides, everyone knows that its not hate that drives the GOP, its greed and hypocrasy. Well, we can all talk about it at the lib-love-in between hits at the opening of "Bobby". Far from being a **new** cheap shot: m.takhallus’s comment is old to the point of being cartoonishly cliche’. Yes, the GOP is driven by hate, merely waiting to be focused upon the right victim group. I must say that I’m disappointed. Usually, you show a bit more creativity and flank your attack with some nuanced reasoning. I haven’t really seen you pick up the torch of identity-politics…but I guess the election has had effect. Besides, everyone knows that its not hate that drives the GOP, its greed and hypocrasy. Well, we can all talk about it at the lib-love-in between hits at the opening of “Bobby”.

]]> By: Heather http://donklephant.com/2006/11/12/evangelicals-starting-to-lose-faith-in-gop/comment-page-1/#comment-108747 Heather Sun, 12 Nov 2006 15:28:03 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2006/11/12/evangelicals-starting-to-lose-faith-in-gop/#comment-108747 m. takhallus, that is one of the cheapest shots I've seen in a long time. The "whipping boy" mentality may be used -- but I would suspect that more of the white supremists than evangelicals. And any evangelicals that you can point to <i>accurately</i> as holding such hate-filled views, they are very few and very extreme. If there is any one thing that will turn me (and probably most readers) completely off and away from potentially good blogs (like this one) is using a very broad brush to tar an entire segment of society with the taint of a very few extremists. And this goes for <i>both</i> ends of the extreme and those who get caught under the brush. m. takhallus, that is one of the cheapest shots I’ve seen in a long time. The “whipping boy” mentality may be used — but I would suspect that more of the white supremists than evangelicals. And any evangelicals that you can point to accurately as holding such hate-filled views, they are very few and very extreme.

If there is any one thing that will turn me (and probably most readers) completely off and away from potentially good blogs (like this one) is using a very broad brush to tar an entire segment of society with the taint of a very few extremists. And this goes for both ends of the extreme and those who get caught under the brush.

]]> By: m.takhallus http://donklephant.com/2006/11/12/evangelicals-starting-to-lose-faith-in-gop/comment-page-1/#comment-108712 m.takhallus Sun, 12 Nov 2006 15:01:36 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2006/11/12/evangelicals-starting-to-lose-faith-in-gop/#comment-108712 The GOP will need to find a new whipping boy. The gay hate is wearing thin. And the liberal bashing is tired, too. The "base" will need a new hate object to motivate them. Let's see . . . Jews? No, the Evangelicals need Jews to bring on their Apocalypse. Blacks? No, that's too 1964. Muslims are good, but kind of far away. Ideally a good whipping boy should be someone close at hand, someone domestic and capable of provoking fear. Mexicans would be good except that they are fundamentally conservative as a group -- religious, pro-family. Damn. Are we running out of despised minorities? The GOP will need to find a new whipping boy. The gay hate is wearing thin. And the liberal bashing is tired, too. The “base” will need a new hate object to motivate them.

Let’s see . . . Jews? No, the Evangelicals need Jews to bring on their Apocalypse. Blacks? No, that’s too 1964. Muslims are good, but kind of far away. Ideally a good whipping boy should be someone close at hand, someone domestic and capable of provoking fear. Mexicans would be good except that they are fundamentally conservative as a group — religious, pro-family.

Damn. Are we running out of despised minorities?

]]> By: Trading Theocons for Theolibs « My View from the Center . . . a fresh perspective on today’s news http://donklephant.com/2006/11/12/evangelicals-starting-to-lose-faith-in-gop/comment-page-1/#comment-108223 Trading Theocons for Theolibs « My View from the Center . . . a fresh perspective on today’s news Sun, 12 Nov 2006 10:33:59 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2006/11/12/evangelicals-starting-to-lose-faith-in-gop/#comment-108223 [...] Donklephant: Evangelicals Starting To Lose Faith In GOP? [...] [...] Donklephant: Evangelicals Starting To Lose Faith In GOP? [...]

]]> By: Blogger News Network » Trading Theocons for Theolibs http://donklephant.com/2006/11/12/evangelicals-starting-to-lose-faith-in-gop/comment-page-1/#comment-108222 Blogger News Network » Trading Theocons for Theolibs Sun, 12 Nov 2006 10:33:44 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2006/11/12/evangelicals-starting-to-lose-faith-in-gop/#comment-108222 [...] Donklephant: Evangelicals Starting To Lose Faith In GOP? [...] [...] Donklephant: Evangelicals Starting To Lose Faith In GOP? [...]

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