Comments on: The U.S. Leads the World.. http://donklephant.com/2006/12/10/the-us-leads-the-world/ Big Teeth. Huge Ass. Surprisingly Reasonable. Tue, 14 Feb 2012 14:03:13 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: probligo http://donklephant.com/2006/12/10/the-us-leads-the-world/comment-page-1/#comment-162683 probligo Tue, 19 Dec 2006 08:12:28 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2006/12/10/the-us-leads-the-world/#comment-162683 WJ, I was relying on information that is commonly cited in NZ by (predominantly) the right wing political opposition. <a href="http://www.kcl.ac.uk/depsta/rel/icps/worldbrief/highest_to_lowest_rates.php" rel="nofollow">Having found this</a> I stand corrected to the extent that in the global list NZ stands at 64 of 213. I note at the same time that Sudan, Mali, and Chad are listed 201, 202, 203 respectively. Perhaps there are some lessons there? That aside, the next time I hear our right wing prating on about the numbers that we have in prison I shall be sure to let him know where the correct data is. Thank you. WJ, I was relying on information that is commonly cited in NZ by (predominantly) the right wing political opposition.

Having found this I stand corrected to the extent that in the global list NZ stands at 64 of 213. I note at the same time that Sudan, Mali, and Chad are listed 201, 202, 203 respectively. Perhaps there are some lessons there?

That aside, the next time I hear our right wing prating on about the numbers that we have in prison I shall be sure to let him know where the correct data is.

Thank you.

]]> By: wj http://donklephant.com/2006/12/10/the-us-leads-the-world/comment-page-1/#comment-142428 wj Wed, 13 Dec 2006 02:44:32 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2006/12/10/the-us-leads-the-world/#comment-142428 probligo, doubtelss you can provide us with a source for the per capita ranking you cite.... probligo, doubtelss you can provide us with a source for the per capita ranking you cite….

]]> By: probligo http://donklephant.com/2006/12/10/the-us-leads-the-world/comment-page-1/#comment-142339 probligo Wed, 13 Dec 2006 00:05:35 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2006/12/10/the-us-leads-the-world/#comment-142339 Wrong wj, and I hate to say this but NZ is second behind the US on a per capita basis... But then I read of <a href="http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10415022" rel="nofollow">how some people in this country "behave"</a> and I have to wonder what gives. Wrong wj, and I hate to say this but NZ is second behind the US on a per capita basis…

But then I read of how some people in this country “behave” and I have to wonder what gives.

]]> By: Confused http://donklephant.com/2006/12/10/the-us-leads-the-world/comment-page-1/#comment-140426 Confused Mon, 11 Dec 2006 14:34:56 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2006/12/10/the-us-leads-the-world/#comment-140426 Hey! I thought we got rid of the Welfare State. Although, if I had an expensive medical problem, I might rob a bank so I can get healthcare. Truthfully folks, we lock people up because we are too lazy to figure out a better way of dealing with nonviolent offenders. I am all in favor of locking up and throwing away the key on those offenders that are a threat to our society; but I object to my taxpayer money going to support state-sponsored welfare for people who are perfectly capable of working. Hey! I thought we got rid of the Welfare State. Although, if I had an expensive medical problem, I might rob a bank so I can get healthcare.

Truthfully folks, we lock people up because we are too lazy to figure out a better way of dealing with nonviolent offenders. I am all in favor of locking up and throwing away the key on those offenders that are a threat to our society; but I object to my taxpayer money going to support state-sponsored welfare for people who are perfectly capable of working.

]]> By: Lewis http://donklephant.com/2006/12/10/the-us-leads-the-world/comment-page-1/#comment-139845 Lewis Sun, 10 Dec 2006 20:45:35 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2006/12/10/the-us-leads-the-world/#comment-139845 Maybe the high number is because we enforce our laws better than other countries. Do I hear anyone complaining about the substantial reduction in crime over the past decade? Alex you need to get out more. I have seen drugs and alcohol screw up or destroy the lives of more people than most anything else. DUI is only one of the many ways that abusers negatively impact the public. Maybe the high number is because we enforce our laws better than other countries. Do I hear anyone complaining about the substantial reduction in crime over the past decade?

Alex you need to get out more. I have seen drugs and alcohol screw up or destroy the lives of more people than most anything else. DUI is only one of the many ways that abusers negatively impact the public.

]]> By: sleipner http://donklephant.com/2006/12/10/the-us-leads-the-world/comment-page-1/#comment-139801 sleipner Sun, 10 Dec 2006 20:18:09 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2006/12/10/the-us-leads-the-world/#comment-139801 What we really need is attitude readjustment programs. Once someone is convicted of a crime, we have every right to reprogram him or her so that he can no longer commit crimes. That way, we can also boost the number of florists in the world, because you can never have too many florists. So what if the side effects include permanent migraines, nausea, and anal leakage - they earned it by being bad. What we really need is attitude readjustment programs. Once someone is convicted of a crime, we have every right to reprogram him or her so that he can no longer commit crimes. That way, we can also boost the number of florists in the world, because you can never have too many florists. So what if the side effects include permanent migraines, nausea, and anal leakage – they earned it by being bad.

]]> By: wj http://donklephant.com/2006/12/10/the-us-leads-the-world/comment-page-1/#comment-139593 wj Sun, 10 Dec 2006 18:10:43 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2006/12/10/the-us-leads-the-world/#comment-139593 Two points: - First off, raw numbers of those incarcerated is a meaningless metric -- countries with small populations will never show up . . . even if they were to jail 90% of their population. If you want something meaningful, use the percentage of the population. - Second, as noted the biggest factor is our ridiculous drug laws. Do drugs cause problems? Sure. So does alcohol. Which led, a century ago, to Prohibition. Eventually, we figured out that Prohibition didn't work. God willing, we will make the same conceptual leap with regards to the use of other drugs, and change to something saner to address the problems that they cause. Once the drug laws are fixed, the three strikes laws can be left alone. But if we don't, three strikes (which, in California at least, means three of ANY felony, not just three of the same which the ariticle refers to) ends up running up the prison population with individuals who do not warrant that treatment. Two points:

- First off, raw numbers of those incarcerated is a meaningless metric — countries with small populations will never show up . . . even if they were to jail 90% of their population. If you want something meaningful, use the percentage of the population.

- Second, as noted the biggest factor is our ridiculous drug laws. Do drugs cause problems? Sure. So does alcohol. Which led, a century ago, to Prohibition. Eventually, we figured out that Prohibition didn’t work. God willing, we will make the same conceptual leap with regards to the use of other drugs, and change to something saner to address the problems that they cause.

Once the drug laws are fixed, the three strikes laws can be left alone. But if we don’t, three strikes (which, in California at least, means three of ANY felony, not just three of the same which the ariticle refers to) ends up running up the prison population with individuals who do not warrant that treatment.

]]> By: Alex http://donklephant.com/2006/12/10/the-us-leads-the-world/comment-page-1/#comment-139144 Alex Sun, 10 Dec 2006 15:01:16 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2006/12/10/the-us-leads-the-world/#comment-139144 Absolutely agree on different punishment/sentencing for non violent offenders, drug related. The three strikes your out policy seems fine to me for crimes that affect us all: anything violent, theft, fraud. The only danger to the public from drug abusers are their under the influence behaviors in public. If that's not a factor in a case, then I don't see why prison time should be considered. Surely thousands of grandmas with glaucoma or arthritis smoking marijuana in their backyards is an actual victimless crime. These people aren't hurting myself or my family, so I don't see any reason we should be paying to rob them of their lives and keep them in a prison. If we must punish people for substance abuse/possesion/trafficing then at least make it useful instead of a giant economic drain on the country. Absolutely agree on different punishment/sentencing for non violent offenders, drug related. The three strikes your out policy seems fine to me for crimes that affect us all: anything violent, theft, fraud.

The only danger to the public from drug abusers are their under the influence behaviors in public. If that’s not a factor in a case, then I don’t see why prison time should be considered. Surely thousands of grandmas with glaucoma or arthritis smoking marijuana in their backyards is an actual victimless crime. These people aren’t hurting myself or my family, so I don’t see any reason we should be paying to rob them of their lives and keep them in a prison.

If we must punish people for substance abuse/possesion/trafficing then at least make it useful instead of a giant economic drain on the country.

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