One 24 year-old I was recently talking to lamented his lack of health insurance. He had cable and NetFlix, combined cost of these two necessities greater than a basic health insurance plan. In Los Angeles! He said, “really?”

But you and I both know that our government would never let the healthcare system get to the point where people who could afford care would be waiting that long.

Justin, sometimes I just want to hug you like a misguided little brother. The Market, not the Government, would never “let” the healthcare system get to the point where people who could afford care would be waiting that long. However, that is a big “maybe”, depending on how intrusive the Government was into the Market. Whether you like it our not SaneInSF is 100% correct: A PRICE CEILING LEADS TO SHORTAGE. It is a basic economic fact. It is confirmed in the experience of every country that mandates universal healthcare.

Now, lets talk about “realism” Justin. A child dies of a tooth infection which goes to his brain. This is horrible. Who is responsible? Obviously the evil American system of healthcare, right. Except his mother could have taken him to an emergency room or any one of a billion non-for-profit public health clinics. But by all means, lets lay the responsiblity at the door step of the free market. Mom and Pops get a pass on ensuring their children receive care. I’m not saying there aren’t horrible situations out there, but from a utilitarian position of serving the greatest good to the greatest number of people — absolutely without a doubt, our system works 10X better than the Europeans, a bloated federal system of universal healthcare that doesn’t work.

Justin, you may not like my argument, but there’s evidence everyday in all of our lives that show how government mismanages for what it is responsible. FEMA did a great job on Louisiana and Mississippi. It took over 15 years to decide what to do with the SF-Oakland Bay Bridge after the 1989 Loma Prieta Earthquake.

Want other examples?

How about this — all those advocates who want government run universal healthcare, please live in Canada or the UK for a while and report back. Let us know how great it is. Then maybe I’ll think about it. In the meantime, I’m going to go back and think about my sister’s mother-in-law who couldn’t get the preventive care she supposedly would get under universal healthcare and consequently died from undetected cancer.

In Canada.

Sane, I understand your point, but you’re operating under what ifs. And while you fear that the government will be making healthcare decisions for you, you don’t know. What we DO know is that people are dying or getting into such bad healthcare debt as to never be able to get out from under it. That’s the reality, regardless of your suspected future loss of freedom. I’m sorry, but I can’t respect that argument.

That analogy is so misguided I can’t even begin to respond. Comparing a necessity like healthcare to a luxury like a Porsche?

Give me some hard numbers here please. Is this a huge problem or are these rare cases? I don’t know — and I bet you don’t know either.

And by the way, bringing in morality is a slippery slope. Who determines what’s moral and what’s not? To a large part of the population before the Civil War, slavery was morally just to a large part of the population.

Sorry — I don’t want my government making moral judgements for me. And you probably don’t want that either.

In essence, if we ever want an ownership society, universal healthcare is a key component. And I reject that our system MUST be like Britain’s or Canada’s, etc. Even Dems have proposed mandatory health care that’s mixed with tax cuts. Hardly a socialist system. We need to try something, so let’s work toward solutions instead of pointing elsewhere and talking horror stories.

And ultimately, what’s more horrific? Somebody waiting a few months for an MRI or somebody dying because they never had access to the MRI in the first place? If we’re going to compare, then let’s really compare. But you and I both know that our government would never let the healthcare system get to the point where people who could afford care would be waiting that long. It’s as if we’re saying, “Well, if these poor people can suddenly afford health care, there will be fewer resources for the people who can afford it now.” So is this truly a matter of pure economic theory then? And isn’t it morally reprehensible to be condemning people to a life of ill health because of economic theory?

…will the spend-thirft shadow of W loom too large for Republican candidates to even bring up the subject?

It doesn’t have to. Leaving issues of morality aside, lack of universal healthcare is clearly a case of being penny wise and pound foolish. Consider the case of that kid that died of a dental infection that travelled to his brain. He didn’t get an $80 tooth extraction because his mom had no insurance and no money. He wound up hospitalized for two weeks, his brain operated on twice, died anyway and the bill will come to as much as $250,000–that’s $250,000 the hospital will be passing on to the rest of us one way or another. I’d rather have paid for the $80, and I’m sure that most people who give any thought to the issue would agree.

It separates the demand from the costs of delivering the service. If the service is deemed free, there’s inherent overuse.

It’s like pricing Porsches for $10 — everyone will want to get one, and thus will become scarce.

And then that will lead to healthcare rationing, because the bills for the government will be too high.

This is a good idea?

By the way, since all levels of government are inherently incompetent, why do people think that government takeover of markets think it’s a good thing? All you need to do is come by San Francisco where I live and see how great everything is when government tries to do too much. It’ll take a while, even in this small city, because the buses suck. Don’t forget to bring shoes you can throw away, because the streets are filthy and nasty, and come with lots of change because you’ll be hit up a bunch by the homeless.

Gee what a great idea. I wish some people would just take some basic economics courses.