Comments on: The evolution of religion http://donklephant.com/2007/03/06/the-evolution-of-religion/ Big Teeth. Huge Ass. Surprisingly Reasonable. Sat, 22 Nov 2008 23:37:32 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: Richard http://donklephant.com/2007/03/06/the-evolution-of-religion/#comment-339414 Richard Sun, 27 May 2007 11:24:38 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2007/03/06/the-evolution-of-religion/#comment-339414 Higher birth rates are not an advantage to survival, at least in humans. 6.3 billion and counting. Higher birth rates are not an advantage to survival, at least in humans. 6.3 billion and counting.

]]> By: Dan http://donklephant.com/2007/03/06/the-evolution-of-religion/#comment-293960 Dan Mon, 02 Apr 2007 16:29:52 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2007/03/06/the-evolution-of-religion/#comment-293960 I stated thus: <blockquote>The birthrates of nations who practise religions far outstrips those who do not. Your assertion, Mr. Aqui, that religion is “maladaptive to survival� is based on your own idee fixe, not any objective evidence. </blockquote> and you answered: <blockquote>Actually, the European countries with the lowest birthrates are also the ones with the most religious and traditional cultures: Spain, Portugal, Italy and Greece. So the picture isn’t that simple.</blockquote> Are Spain and Portugal, Greece and Italy really "the most religious and traditional" and what exactly does that mean? In what way are the Spanish "more traditional" than the French? <b>More importantly, have you compared <i>non-</i>European countries to European ones?</b> Many non-European nations are profoundly religious and religion plays a greater role in their lives. Yemen, for example, has a birth explosion. I stated thus:

The birthrates of nations who practise religions far outstrips those who do not. Your assertion, Mr. Aqui, that religion is “maladaptive to survival� is based on your own idee fixe, not any objective evidence.

and you answered:

Actually, the European countries with the lowest birthrates are also the ones with the most religious and traditional cultures: Spain, Portugal, Italy and Greece. So the picture isn’t that simple.

Are Spain and Portugal, Greece and Italy really “the most religious and traditional” and what exactly does that mean? In what way are the Spanish “more traditional” than the French?

More importantly, have you compared non-European countries to European ones? Many non-European nations are profoundly religious and religion plays a greater role in their lives. Yemen, for example, has a birth explosion.

]]> By: Sean Aqui http://donklephant.com/2007/03/06/the-evolution-of-religion/#comment-260561 Sean Aqui Wed, 07 Mar 2007 21:04:31 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2007/03/06/the-evolution-of-religion/#comment-260561 It might further be interesting to try to tease out <i>which</i> believers have the highest success rate -- as a possible pointer to the One True Religion. Not that I believe in that. I imagine the title of "most successful religion" would depend on the time period sampled. It might further be interesting to try to tease out which believers have the highest success rate — as a possible pointer to the One True Religion.

Not that I believe in that. I imagine the title of “most successful religion” would depend on the time period sampled.

]]> By: Sean Aqui http://donklephant.com/2007/03/06/the-evolution-of-religion/#comment-260557 Sean Aqui Wed, 07 Mar 2007 20:58:13 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2007/03/06/the-evolution-of-religion/#comment-260557 David: You're right, that was carelessly expressed. I was trying to summarize a view expressed by one of the scientists featured in the story, who said: "So many aspects of religious belief involve misattribution and misunderstanding of the real world. Wouldn’t this be a liability in the survival-of-the-fittest competition? To Atran, religious belief requires taking “what is materially false to be trueâ€Â? and “what is materially true to be false." The actual story, and my post, takes a far broader and more balanced perspective. David: You’re right, that was carelessly expressed. I was trying to summarize a view expressed by one of the scientists featured in the story, who said:

“So many aspects of religious belief involve misattribution and misunderstanding of the real world. Wouldn’t this be a liability in the survival-of-the-fittest competition? To Atran, religious belief requires taking “what is materially false to be trueâ€Â? and “what is materially true to be false.”

The actual story, and my post, takes a far broader and more balanced perspective.

]]> By: David http://donklephant.com/2007/03/06/the-evolution-of-religion/#comment-260526 David Wed, 07 Mar 2007 20:15:21 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2007/03/06/the-evolution-of-religion/#comment-260526 The phrase "believing in nonexistant things" gets my hackles up - perhaps a way to express the essential bit without the confrontational tone would be "believing in non-provable things," or better, "belief in a discorporeal being." "Non-existant" implies that there is evidence that X does not exist, and while I do not believe that the existance of God can be proven, it cannot also be disproven. It is interesting to study religious belief as an anthropological matter - do believers have a higher survival rate than non-believers? Clearly they have a higher birthrate - but they may also have a higher death rate. Perhaps in the name of full intellectual honesty, we should consider the converse of the hypothesis as well - it isn't neccesarily that religious belief causes evolutionary advantage - it might be that God rewards believers (or punishes non-believers). The only assumption for that line of reasoning is that the believers are correct in their belief that God exists. The phrase “believing in nonexistant things” gets my hackles up - perhaps a way to express the essential bit without the confrontational tone would be “believing in non-provable things,” or better, “belief in a discorporeal being.” “Non-existant” implies that there is evidence that X does not exist, and while I do not believe that the existance of God can be proven, it cannot also be disproven.

It is interesting to study religious belief as an anthropological matter - do believers have a higher survival rate than non-believers? Clearly they have a higher birthrate - but they may also have a higher death rate.

Perhaps in the name of full intellectual honesty, we should consider the converse of the hypothesis as well - it isn’t neccesarily that religious belief causes evolutionary advantage - it might be that God rewards believers (or punishes non-believers). The only assumption for that line of reasoning is that the believers are correct in their belief that God exists.

]]> By: Sean Aqui http://donklephant.com/2007/03/06/the-evolution-of-religion/#comment-260457 Sean Aqui Wed, 07 Mar 2007 19:14:14 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2007/03/06/the-evolution-of-religion/#comment-260457 Actually, the European countries with the lowest birthrates are also the ones with the most religious and traditional cultures: Spain, Portugal, Italy and Greece. So the picture isn't that simple. But you didn't read the linked post, did you? Because it largely deals with why religion is *not* maladaptive to survival. Actually, the European countries with the lowest birthrates are also the ones with the most religious and traditional cultures: Spain, Portugal, Italy and Greece. So the picture isn’t that simple.

But you didn’t read the linked post, did you? Because it largely deals with why religion is *not* maladaptive to survival.

]]> By: Dan Goorevitch http://donklephant.com/2007/03/06/the-evolution-of-religion/#comment-260385 Dan Goorevitch Wed, 07 Mar 2007 18:33:35 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2007/03/06/the-evolution-of-religion/#comment-260385 The birthrates of nations who practise religions far outstrips those who do not. Your assertion, Mr. Aqui, that religion is "maladaptive to survival" is based on your own idee fixe, not any objective evidence. The birthrates of nations who practise religions far outstrips those who do not. Your assertion, Mr. Aqui, that religion is “maladaptive to survival” is based on your own idee fixe, not any objective evidence.

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