Yeah I’m very skeptical about the methodology employed, mostly because there are no links back to an original study so that I or anyone else can “kick the tires”. That is the main reason that outfits like Gallup have such a good rep. You can always discover exactly what they are doing.

Your reasoning about “if fake make it a believable fake” would be correct if the intended audience was a more general one. But the choir was certainly being addressed here. That is what Democratic and Republican pollsters do when they are not providing confidential information to individual campaigns. This helps solidifies his “bona fides” so that any Democratic candidate will gladly write him a check for his services. And there are always audiences willing to suspend their more critical faculties to b-slap a favorite old bogeyman.

Flip the story around. If a Republican pollster came out with a result that said 88% of PBS viewers supported John Kerry in the last election, and Republicans used such a result to argue for removing funding for PBS, wouldn’t you be a tiny bit skeptical?

I, like most off us agree, believe Fox is far right. I also believe that the MsM owners are biased to the rght, & the reporters average out to about the center. But then I call myself a centrist, and belief is in the eye of the beholder. Having been a rather far left liberal once upon a time might help my credibility.

I use the Fox News RSS feed, also George Will & Bill Buckley op ed articles. I also use the major MsM feeds. I tend to stay clear of both far right & far left blogs. There are a lot of both out there which are easy to find. I stick with those roughly around the center.

One issue to me is the lopsided numbers in this poll & how badly out of balance it is, even with a 20% margin of error. the other is Fox News saying at every commercial break how “Fair & Balanced” they are. Tell me which other major news source does that at all, much less that often. I rest my case.

thanks for your reply.

i had to do some digging and came across a fascinating study:

http://www.polisci.ucla.edu/faculty/groseclose/Media.Bias.8.htm

for one thing, it shows the liberal media bias - i just left the 28% club, but with caveats :)

i would encourage you to read the whole thing, but of particular interest is figure 2. it basically allows you to simply see the equivalents between members of congress, the voters, and the media.

so, it shows pretty clearly that the new york times is as liberal as joe lieberman

i’ve always thought of lieberman as being pretty centrist, so there’s MY bias - my caveat then is where and how they draw the middle and that this study was published in ‘04 - i’d be interested in seeing how it falls now

however, it shows for me very clearly why i would see the media as right biased and others would disagree - i’m happy to prove myself wrong….

(and just because truth in marketing is an oxymoron doesn’t mean that we should let anyone marketing anything lie and get away with it - that’s why lawyers and pharmaceuticals were forbidden to advertise for so long - i’d like news outlets and politicians - and lawyers and doctors and pharmaceutical companies, among others - held to a higher standard - i think, for example, that this scale, or something similar, should be a required part of a media outlet’s marketing)

I too would love to see a comprehensive study of the views of various reader/viewers as they relate to the media they consume. It’d be fascinating. Although I still think we’d end up with a chicken/egg problem. Do news consumers believe what they believe and pick news outlets that confirm their beliefs, or do the news outlets they pick manipulate them into believing certain things?

Probably a little of both — particularly when it comes to agenda-driven news outlets such as Fox.

My problem with this post is not the assertion that Fox is biased (it is). Nor do I think it’s wrong to call them out on their misleading marketing. I just think it’s a bad idea to use the Bush-voter poll as proof that Fox is manipulating its viewers. The poll simply doesn’t prove that. It’s not a fair attack.

As for “truth in marketing” … it doesn’t exist. Anywhere.

And as for media bias, I think classifying the media as being overall “left leaning” or “right leaning” is a fruitless task. You can find examples of both but, in the end, “the media” is far too broad a collection of voices to so easily label.

you posted while i was posting

for a dissection of fox news’ reporting, you only need to look at media matters

i would like to know, honestly, if there is an equivalent site to media matters from the conservative perspective - i would be interested to read what they see as misinformation in the whole rest of the liberal media

i happen to think ‘truth in marketing’ is important

i would be interested to find out how many of the fox viewers believe that fox news is biased to the right. i believe the constant refrain of ‘you report, we decide’ and ‘fair and balanced’ is more than just a clever marketing ploy. i believe it leads people to believe that fox news is moderate. but that’s just what i believe - i’d love to see the stats

in most instances, metadata is as important as the data itself. if i have a thermometer that says it’s 100 degrees outside, i know i should plan to stay indoors. if i find out the thermometer reads 20 degrees high all the time, i now know it’s 80 and i can make my decision accordingly

i know many of the writers at the NYT lean left, and certain editorial areas lean right - i understand what the metadata is, and i can read the story knowing the slant. if something sounds fishy, i check other sources to get their slant.

my gut tells me that many fox viewers consider fox news middle of the road - they’re certainly told that often enough - but that’s just my gut - i’d honestly like to know what they think…..

Their worked is as choreographed as a WWF wrestling match. Once you get past the notion that you know what they will say - the entertainment is how they will sell it. There is not much there - I could write Hannity’s material for him…if I used small words.

They are now victims of their success - as Bush and the Reps fall from favor they have sealed their fate. Home of the Brain Dead.

I would welcome a conservative pollster to take the same poll regarding what I have heard called the liberal media outlets that are the NYT and the Washington Post. I’d like them to throw in CNN, CBS, NBC, ABC, and any other media outlet that purports that it attempts to be objective or balanced.

Given the recent poll that 83% of americans believe media is biased, and 64% believe the media is biased left and 28% believe the media is biased right, I think it’s an important and critical question.

I would also like to know how many consider these sources as their primary or sole source of news versus how many draw from multiple sources.

I am completely in concurrence with Justin. I believe that Fox is incredibly skewed in its coverage and its agenda - far more than the other outlets. I am also with the 28% who believe that the media is skewed to the right. I believe the liberal media bias is a very successful meme that has worked to the conservative advantage for too long.

And Rich, when people can look at a 88% - 7% split and say that the problem is that the poll is biased because it was done by a democratic pollster, it tells me that they’re shooting from their gut, not their head. Even the best attempt to skew the results would be hard pressed to get that type of a result without it being obvious. Perhaps the result is skewed by, say, 10% - but 78% - 17% is still pretty strong. Heck, even a 20% shift still puts it at 68% - 27% - that’s still a pretty strong indication of bias. And, like I say, I would welcome polls across the media spectrum from across the political spectrum.

I am willing to be proven wrong. Anybody know of data that supports the liberal media meme? I know the reporters have become more biased to the left over the years. I also know that the corporate owners have become more biased towards the right. It seems to me that such an important question should not be left unanswered.

They attracted people to that niche by being the only major news network that gave the news from a conservative slant. The conservatives came first, then the news network.

Is your beef simply that they do not admit they lean right? Why is that an issue of anything more than truth in marketing? I don’t think whether or not Fox News admits they’re right-leaning will change how many people believe in the conservative side of things. People are conservatives and watch Fox News. They don’t get tricked into conservavism by tuning in to Brit Hume.

If you want to attack Fox News, write a post disecting their coverage and showing where they are knowingly lying to manipulate the audience. I don’t doubt you can find such instances.

It’s interesting that so many of their viewers are Bush voters. But, ultimately, neither that nor their annoying “fair and balanced” tagline prove they’re being manipulative. Savvy marketers, sure, but that’s not the same as distorting the facts.

See, it’d be one thing if Fox was how they are and they just talked about being an authoritative source, #1 in news, blah blah blah.

But once they took a side and basically suggested that all other news organizations weren’t fair and balanced, the deception was purposeful. We report, you decide? Not a chance. And the fact that Brit Hume is a news anchor during the week and a conservative pundit during the weekend points to exactly how skewed their priorities are.

I wonder what the comparable stats would be to, say, New York Times readership and Kerry voters. Probably not so amazingly out of whack but I bet you could us the results to “prove” the NYT’s liberal bias.

Not that I’m saying Fox isn’t biased … just that they aren’t necessarily manipulating people so much as they are feeding a market demand.

Dan Rather never lies.

Here’s another good one: But…but…Bill Clinton did it too!

People…are we tired of these arguments or what? What Dan Rather did wasn’t right, but this is about an entire news outlet that is systematically trying to call ALL the other news outlets “far left” by saying they’re “balanced.” I do notice that you didn’t defend Fox. Maybe that should tell me all I need to know.

To Monica’s point, all news networks are biased, but nearly every single one of them try their dead-level best to land somewhere near the “objective” ideal. Fox News never tries to do that, even though their marketing suggests they are the shining beacon of balanced coverage. It’s crap, and we all know it.

Oh, and I’m a Democrat. I’ve never tried to hide that. Read the About Us to find out in the top right hand corner to see what this site is all about.

All the news networks are biased one way or the other, and people, or the consumers, pick their flavor. Just yesterday a CNN host was heard cheering on Nancy Pelosi when she ripped into a Republican. This stuff happens everywhere. It’s unfortunate that this occurs, but it does and it seems disingenuous to say it’s only Fox that does it. Just because they aren’t biased in your desired political flavor doesn’t mean they’re the only ones who are biased. That just isn’t the reality.

And, it was dumb for the Dems to cancel their debated on Fox. It sets a bad precedent. I would be just as disgusted by conservatives if they did the same thing to CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, etc.