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	<title>Comments on: Torture In Iraq</title>
	<atom:link href="http://donklephant.com/2007/04/22/torture-in-iraq/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://donklephant.com/2007/04/22/torture-in-iraq/</link>
	<description>Big Teeth. Huge Ass. Surprisingly Reasonable.</description>
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		<title>By: Alan Stewart Carl</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2007/04/22/torture-in-iraq/comment-page-1/#comment-313943</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Stewart Carl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Apr 2007 22:33:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2007/04/22/torture-in-iraq/#comment-313943</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Welcome to the new Iraq.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Same as the old Iraq. If we&#039;re actually focused on bettering Iraq, we need to do all we can to stop them from slipping back into the evil habits of Saddam.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Welcome to the new Iraq.</p></blockquote>
<p>Same as the old Iraq. If we&#8217;re actually focused on bettering Iraq, we need to do all we can to stop them from slipping back into the evil habits of Saddam.</p>
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		<title>By: DosPeros</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2007/04/22/torture-in-iraq/comment-page-1/#comment-313325</link>
		<dc:creator>DosPeros</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Apr 2007 01:07:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2007/04/22/torture-in-iraq/#comment-313325</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;IÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢m rooting for a real democracy in Iraq&lt;/blockquote&gt;

That is fantastic Justin.  I was under the impression that you wanted to get out of Iraq sometime in the next 20 years.  Hell, I thought that you were one of those so splenetic on very feasibility of that very mission.  

Well, now that you&#039;ve joined the delusional neocons, I&#039;m with you -- we should stick around, institutionalize Miranda and put video cameras in all the interrogation rooms.  

I&#039;m for finding a firm-handed potentate that can establish security without resorting to genocide.  But hell, since you&#039;re in favor of sticking it out to the bitter end, someone needs to get to work organizing the Baghdad Gay Pride Parade.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>IÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢m rooting for a real democracy in Iraq</p></blockquote>
<p>That is fantastic Justin.  I was under the impression that you wanted to get out of Iraq sometime in the next 20 years.  Hell, I thought that you were one of those so splenetic on very feasibility of that very mission.  </p>
<p>Well, now that you&#8217;ve joined the delusional neocons, I&#8217;m with you &#8212; we should stick around, institutionalize Miranda and put video cameras in all the interrogation rooms.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m for finding a firm-handed potentate that can establish security without resorting to genocide.  But hell, since you&#8217;re in favor of sticking it out to the bitter end, someone needs to get to work organizing the Baghdad Gay Pride Parade.</p>
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		<title>By: Justin Gardner</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2007/04/22/torture-in-iraq/comment-page-1/#comment-313269</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin Gardner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Apr 2007 23:21:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2007/04/22/torture-in-iraq/#comment-313269</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m rooting for a real democracy in Iraq, which won&#039;t come about if Iraqis are torturing their prisoners. You know...the tactics of the guy who got hung a couple months ago...

So since you seem to embrace the tactics of dictators, who or what are you rooting for?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m rooting for a real democracy in Iraq, which won&#8217;t come about if Iraqis are torturing their prisoners. You know&#8230;the tactics of the guy who got hung a couple months ago&#8230;</p>
<p>So since you seem to embrace the tactics of dictators, who or what are you rooting for?</p>
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		<title>By: rachel</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2007/04/22/torture-in-iraq/comment-page-1/#comment-313251</link>
		<dc:creator>rachel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Apr 2007 22:47:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2007/04/22/torture-in-iraq/#comment-313251</guid>
		<description>Saddam Hussein tortured Iraqis, too. What good did it do him?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Saddam Hussein tortured Iraqis, too. What good did it do him?</p>
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		<title>By: Joshua</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2007/04/22/torture-in-iraq/comment-page-1/#comment-313226</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Apr 2007 21:46:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2007/04/22/torture-in-iraq/#comment-313226</guid>
		<description>As I commented on Captain Ed&#039;s piece, torture by our side would be hard enough to swallow if there were a real sense that our national well-being depended on the outcome of the war. Maybe it does, but you sure wouldn&#039;t know it by looking on the homefront, where the attitude has been more or less business as usual - with the Bush administration&#039;s &lt;b&gt;encouragement&lt;/b&gt;, no less - almost since September 12.

If there&#039;s not enough urgency in this war to require real, broad-based sacrifice from the American people, it&#039;s pretty much impossible to argue that there&#039;s enough to warrant the use of torture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I commented on Captain Ed&#8217;s piece, torture by our side would be hard enough to swallow if there were a real sense that our national well-being depended on the outcome of the war. Maybe it does, but you sure wouldn&#8217;t know it by looking on the homefront, where the attitude has been more or less business as usual &#8211; with the Bush administration&#8217;s <b>encouragement</b>, no less &#8211; almost since September 12.</p>
<p>If there&#8217;s not enough urgency in this war to require real, broad-based sacrifice from the American people, it&#8217;s pretty much impossible to argue that there&#8217;s enough to warrant the use of torture.</p>
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		<title>By: Damozel</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2007/04/22/torture-in-iraq/comment-page-1/#comment-313176</link>
		<dc:creator>Damozel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Apr 2007 19:35:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2007/04/22/torture-in-iraq/#comment-313176</guid>
		<description>I think perhaps we should all oppose any action that reinforces the notion that  what&#039;s expedient trumps respect for the dignity of other individuals (including criminals and enemy soldiers), which I understand as one of the assumptions on which democracy rests.  Of course it is EASIER to beat information out of someone, provided that they have the information and are not just saying whatever they have to to ensure that they don&#039;t get beaten.  But this country and the constitution are based on principles that make it harder, not easier, to get information in ways that infringe the basic dignity of others.  You don&#039;t have to be a democrat to think this; you just have to remember the underlying principles of a democratic government, where even the worst criminals are protected from forced confessions. 

Such events demonstrate why it is that bringing democracy to Iraq was probably always a pie-in-the-sky aspiration.   Before you can instill the structure, you have to prepare the soil and lay the foundation.  People who live in a culture where leaders have routinely used violence to ensure efficient responses haven&#039;t yet had the foundation prepared. 

To put it another way:  yeah, it is sickening.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think perhaps we should all oppose any action that reinforces the notion that  what&#8217;s expedient trumps respect for the dignity of other individuals (including criminals and enemy soldiers), which I understand as one of the assumptions on which democracy rests.  Of course it is EASIER to beat information out of someone, provided that they have the information and are not just saying whatever they have to to ensure that they don&#8217;t get beaten.  But this country and the constitution are based on principles that make it harder, not easier, to get information in ways that infringe the basic dignity of others.  You don&#8217;t have to be a democrat to think this; you just have to remember the underlying principles of a democratic government, where even the worst criminals are protected from forced confessions. </p>
<p>Such events demonstrate why it is that bringing democracy to Iraq was probably always a pie-in-the-sky aspiration.   Before you can instill the structure, you have to prepare the soil and lay the foundation.  People who live in a culture where leaders have routinely used violence to ensure efficient responses haven&#8217;t yet had the foundation prepared. </p>
<p>To put it another way:  yeah, it is sickening.</p>
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		<title>By: DosPeros</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2007/04/22/torture-in-iraq/comment-page-1/#comment-313144</link>
		<dc:creator>DosPeros</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Apr 2007 18:23:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2007/04/22/torture-in-iraq/#comment-313144</guid>
		<description>They seem to be proud of it because it has yielded useful intelligence.  I know, I know...beating them does not work as well as, say, giving them cookies &amp; milk and asking the &quot;pretty please with a cherry-on-top, where are the bomb making materials?&quot;, but honestly - Am I to really be stridently opposed to IRAQIS doing what is necessary in IRAQ to IRAQI insurgents that are killing US soldiers?  You exactly are your routing for here, Justin?  (oh uh, I think I just asked one of those taboo Democrat questions that one is never, ever, ever suppose to ask...oops)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They seem to be proud of it because it has yielded useful intelligence.  I know, I know&#8230;beating them does not work as well as, say, giving them cookies &amp; milk and asking the &#8220;pretty please with a cherry-on-top, where are the bomb making materials?&#8221;, but honestly &#8211; Am I to really be stridently opposed to IRAQIS doing what is necessary in IRAQ to IRAQI insurgents that are killing US soldiers?  You exactly are your routing for here, Justin?  (oh uh, I think I just asked one of those taboo Democrat questions that one is never, ever, ever suppose to ask&#8230;oops)</p>
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