Comments on: Liberals and War

By: grognard

grognard — Tue, 19 Jun 2007 19:17:24 +0000

I love how these pundits create boxes for people and then slap a label on them. I have never found any group to be that easy to categorize other than in extremely general terms. I think the term ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…â€œliberal hawkÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã‚? falls under the no such thing category.

By: Jimmy the Dhimmi

Jimmy the Dhimmi — Mon, 18 Jun 2007 14:24:10 +0000

We have to let Iran work out IranÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s problems

How many of the Democratic candidates will come out and say, “We simply have to accept a nuclear-armed Iran”?

By: Dyre Portents

Dyre Portents — Mon, 18 Jun 2007 06:27:35 +0000

Liberal Hawks and the Iran Debate

Ezra Klein over at The American Prospect recently wrote an article called “Let’s Get Serious: What do liberal hawks actually want to do regarding Iran?” that has stirred an interesting cross blog debate amongst moderates. Allow me to sort of abridge…

By: Justin Gardner

Justin Gardner — Mon, 18 Jun 2007 05:28:53 +0000

Well, we go off fighting wars at our economic and moral peril. War is messy and in this new information age there is an enormous amount of transparency…and transparency and war don’t usually mix.

We have to let Iran work out Iran’s problems. We go in there and start bombing, we’re going to turn potential friends within that country into enemies…and I’m speaking here about the people of Iran, not the politcos.

At the end of the day, I didn’t believe in the Bush Doctrine when it was first presented, and I don’t believe in it now. And I think you can be a liberal hawk, believe in righting wrongs around the world through military intervention and still think the Bush Doctrine is naive and ill conceived policy that should be reversed sooner rather than later.

By: Dyre42

Dyre42 — Mon, 18 Jun 2007 05:23:31 +0000

I agree Justin, there are no good, quick, or clean military options with Iran. Should we have to go that route it’ll just be a choice of evils

By: Fallacies Regarding Doves, Iraq, And The Use of Military Force - Liberal Values - Defending Liberty and Enlightened Thought

Sun, 17 Jun 2007 20:45:32 +0000

[...] Ezra Klein has written about the writings of liberal hawks to avoid admitting their mistakes on Iraq with a response from Kevin Sullivan which quotes heavily from John Kerry. Michael van der Galien weighs in (here and here) but inadvertently demonstrates the whole problem of speaking of hawks versus doves. Michael writes: The problem with the doves is that they oppose using military force, because it is military force. For us hawks, military force is a tool – a tool you will only use when all other tools fail on you, but a tool nonetheless. I find it incredibly strange that there are people who want the US government, or individual candidates, to rule out (supporting) the use of force. [...]

By: Justin Gardner

Justin Gardner — Sun, 17 Jun 2007 05:40:42 +0000

It’s the weekend Kevin, so don’t sweat fewer responses. This has been a particularly slow weekend for some reason.

I do think liberal hawks are a reality. I mean, Roosevelt, Truman, Kennedy…hell, even Clinton…the trend is there. I just think that liberals think our policy now hurts our supremacy in the world, especially after Vietnam, and so the backlash.

To me, Iran is a losing proposition, and I don’t think I’m alone in this with Dems or Repubs.