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	<title>Comments on: Obama/Clinton Kerfuffle Continues</title>
	<atom:link href="http://donklephant.com/2007/08/02/obamaclinton-kerfuffle-continues/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://donklephant.com/2007/08/02/obamaclinton-kerfuffle-continues/</link>
	<description>Big Teeth. Huge Ass. Surprisingly Reasonable.</description>
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		<title>By: Dyre42</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2007/08/02/obamaclinton-kerfuffle-continues/comment-page-1/#comment-380096</link>
		<dc:creator>Dyre42</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2007 05:34:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2007/08/02/obamaclinton-kerfuffle-continues/#comment-380096</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve stated previously (just not here) that I think Obama will end up as the candidate for VP.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve stated previously (just not here) that I think Obama will end up as the candidate for VP.</p>
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		<title>By: wj</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2007/08/02/obamaclinton-kerfuffle-continues/comment-page-1/#comment-380087</link>
		<dc:creator>wj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Aug 2007 21:38:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2007/08/02/obamaclinton-kerfuffle-continues/#comment-380087</guid>
		<description>It sounds to me like Obama is not advocating invasion in the sense that we invaded Iraq -- going in and expecting to leave when a new and stable government was in place.  

Rather he sounds like he is talking about invasion in the sense of go in, smash the problem, depart forthwith -- leaving the existing government to sort itself out.  Considering that the border area of Pakistan has been effectively ungoverned for ages, it isn&#039;t like there would be much need to stay and try ourselves.

Overall, not anywhere near as foolish as the objectors characterize it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It sounds to me like Obama is not advocating invasion in the sense that we invaded Iraq &#8212; going in and expecting to leave when a new and stable government was in place.  </p>
<p>Rather he sounds like he is talking about invasion in the sense of go in, smash the problem, depart forthwith &#8212; leaving the existing government to sort itself out.  Considering that the border area of Pakistan has been effectively ungoverned for ages, it isn&#8217;t like there would be much need to stay and try ourselves.</p>
<p>Overall, not anywhere near as foolish as the objectors characterize it.</p>
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		<title>By: Jimmy the Dhimmi</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2007/08/02/obamaclinton-kerfuffle-continues/comment-page-1/#comment-380086</link>
		<dc:creator>Jimmy the Dhimmi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Aug 2007 20:23:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2007/08/02/obamaclinton-kerfuffle-continues/#comment-380086</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;&quot;We&#039;ve got to get on the right battlefield in Afghanistan and Pakistan...&quot;&lt;/em&gt;  That sounds rather stern to me, especially considering that sometimes you &lt;em&gt;do&lt;/em&gt; need to send in ground forces or special ops to take out high value targets.  If Waziristan has become a Taliban/Al-qaeda enclave, the way that half of Afghanistan was before 9/11...then &lt;em&gt;why not&lt;/em&gt; invade? that is, if invading Afghanistan was justified.

I could be wrong, maybe Obama has taken invading western Pakistan off the table, I guess we will have to wait until the new Rassmusen/ Gallup approval numbers come out before he clarifies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>&#8220;We&#8217;ve got to get on the right battlefield in Afghanistan and Pakistan&#8230;&#8221;</em>  That sounds rather stern to me, especially considering that sometimes you <em>do</em> need to send in ground forces or special ops to take out high value targets.  If Waziristan has become a Taliban/Al-qaeda enclave, the way that half of Afghanistan was before 9/11&#8230;then <em>why not</em> invade? that is, if invading Afghanistan was justified.</p>
<p>I could be wrong, maybe Obama has taken invading western Pakistan off the table, I guess we will have to wait until the new Rassmusen/ Gallup approval numbers come out before he clarifies.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2007/08/02/obamaclinton-kerfuffle-continues/comment-page-1/#comment-380084</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Aug 2007 19:15:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2007/08/02/obamaclinton-kerfuffle-continues/#comment-380084</guid>
		<description>Except for the fact that he never specifically said he&#039;d invade Pakistan. Do you need to invade Pakistan to take out high-value terrorist targets in Pakistan?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Except for the fact that he never specifically said he&#8217;d invade Pakistan. Do you need to invade Pakistan to take out high-value terrorist targets in Pakistan?</p>
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		<title>By: Jimmy the Dhimmi</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2007/08/02/obamaclinton-kerfuffle-continues/comment-page-1/#comment-380081</link>
		<dc:creator>Jimmy the Dhimmi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Aug 2007 18:01:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2007/08/02/obamaclinton-kerfuffle-continues/#comment-380081</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m with MW.  I predict Clinton/Obama in 2008 as well.  We should call them the &quot;Demographic Party&quot;  because thats how they win elections.  It was similar to 2004 when Kerry chose Edwards, another primary frontrunner, because he was a southern populist who could hedge Kerry&#039;s northeastern aristocratic feel.  They didn&#039;t even like eachother.

Its also apparent when you consider the Demograph&#039;s ever-changing positions on Iraq.  Which voting block does this position appeal to and at what time.  Obama says that he will now invade Pakistan because focus groups told his campaign manager that he looked weak on foreign policy during the primary debate with Clinton.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m with MW.  I predict Clinton/Obama in 2008 as well.  We should call them the &#8220;Demographic Party&#8221;  because thats how they win elections.  It was similar to 2004 when Kerry chose Edwards, another primary frontrunner, because he was a southern populist who could hedge Kerry&#8217;s northeastern aristocratic feel.  They didn&#8217;t even like eachother.</p>
<p>Its also apparent when you consider the Demograph&#8217;s ever-changing positions on Iraq.  Which voting block does this position appeal to and at what time.  Obama says that he will now invade Pakistan because focus groups told his campaign manager that he looked weak on foreign policy during the primary debate with Clinton.</p>
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		<title>By: mw</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2007/08/02/obamaclinton-kerfuffle-continues/comment-page-1/#comment-380078</link>
		<dc:creator>mw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Aug 2007 17:01:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2007/08/02/obamaclinton-kerfuffle-continues/#comment-380078</guid>
		<description>I am sticking with my prediction from &lt;a href=&quot;http://westanddivided.blogspot.com/2007/02/obama-declares-candidacy-for-vice.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;last February:&lt;/a&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;â€œA key element in the selection of any Vice-Presidential candidate, is to identify what constituency they bring to a ticket. From a purely political perspective, it is interesting to ask - Exactly what constituency does Barack Obama bring to a Democratic ticket? It is not his home state. Illinois is already True Blue. It is not the black vote, Hillary Clinton outpolls Barack Obama among blacks. But if Barack can bring a generational constituency, if he can mobilize a demographic block that historically cannot even be bothered to vote, then Barack would be a formidable addition to any Democratic ticket. This is a campaign to capture that constituency and trade it for a spot on the ticket.â€&lt;/i&gt;

Obama is on a campaign for Vice President, and this speech brings him closer in-line with ultimate Democratic nominee - Clinton. Barack may occasionally let the emotion of his supporters let him daydream about winning the nomination now. But he is smart enough to understand that he cannot win a general election with his limited experience in 2008. After four or eight years as Vice-President? The nomination and White House is his by acclamation. There are two predictions here - The Democratic ticket is Clinton/Obama. If they win in 2008, regardless of what happens in 2012, Obama wins the 2016 election for President.

How is that for balls? A nine year forecast. You have to keep this blog going for nine years so I can come back and say I told you so.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am sticking with my prediction from <a href="http://westanddivided.blogspot.com/2007/02/obama-declares-candidacy-for-vice.html" rel="nofollow">last February:</a></p>
<blockquote><p><i>â€œA key element in the selection of any Vice-Presidential candidate, is to identify what constituency they bring to a ticket. From a purely political perspective, it is interesting to ask &#8211; Exactly what constituency does Barack Obama bring to a Democratic ticket? It is not his home state. Illinois is already True Blue. It is not the black vote, Hillary Clinton outpolls Barack Obama among blacks. But if Barack can bring a generational constituency, if he can mobilize a demographic block that historically cannot even be bothered to vote, then Barack would be a formidable addition to any Democratic ticket. This is a campaign to capture that constituency and trade it for a spot on the ticket.â€</i></p>
<p>Obama is on a campaign for Vice President, and this speech brings him closer in-line with ultimate Democratic nominee &#8211; Clinton. Barack may occasionally let the emotion of his supporters let him daydream about winning the nomination now. But he is smart enough to understand that he cannot win a general election with his limited experience in 2008. After four or eight years as Vice-President? The nomination and White House is his by acclamation. There are two predictions here &#8211; The Democratic ticket is Clinton/Obama. If they win in 2008, regardless of what happens in 2012, Obama wins the 2016 election for President.</p>
<p>How is that for balls? A nine year forecast. You have to keep this blog going for nine years so I can come back and say I told you so.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2007/08/02/obamaclinton-kerfuffle-continues/comment-page-1/#comment-380076</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Aug 2007 15:22:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2007/08/02/obamaclinton-kerfuffle-continues/#comment-380076</guid>
		<description>Meanwhile Hillary calls the comments &quot;irresponsible&quot;

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2007-08/02/content_6464661.htm

Yet she agrees with Obama

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2007/8/2/worldupdates/2007-08-02T023102Z_01_NOOTR_RTRMDNC_0_-287732-2&amp;sec=worldupdates

&lt;i&gt;Clinton, in an interview with the American Urban Radio Network, stressed the importance of the Pakistanis &quot;taking the actions that only they can take within their own country.&quot;

But she did not rule out U.S. attacks inside Pakistan, citing the missile attacks her husband, then-President Bill Clinton, ordered against Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan in 1998.

&quot;If we had actionable intelligence that Osama bin Laden or other high-value targets were in Pakistan I would ensure that they were targeted and killed or captured,&quot; she said.&lt;/i&gt;

So she finds irresponsible something she agrees with?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Meanwhile Hillary calls the comments &#8220;irresponsible&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2007-08/02/content_6464661.htm" rel="nofollow">http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2007-08/02/content_6464661.htm</a></p>
<p>Yet she agrees with Obama</p>
<p><a href="http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2007/8/2/worldupdates/2007-08-02T023102Z_01_NOOTR_RTRMDNC_0_-287732-2&amp;sec=worldupdates" rel="nofollow">http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2007/8/2/worldupdates/2007-08-02T023102Z_01_NOOTR_RTRMDNC_0_-287732-2&amp;sec=worldupdates</a></p>
<p><i>Clinton, in an interview with the American Urban Radio Network, stressed the importance of the Pakistanis &#8220;taking the actions that only they can take within their own country.&#8221;</p>
<p>But she did not rule out U.S. attacks inside Pakistan, citing the missile attacks her husband, then-President Bill Clinton, ordered against Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan in 1998.</p>
<p>&#8220;If we had actionable intelligence that Osama bin Laden or other high-value targets were in Pakistan I would ensure that they were targeted and killed or captured,&#8221; she said.</i></p>
<p>So she finds irresponsible something she agrees with?</p>
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		<title>By: Tyler</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2007/08/02/obamaclinton-kerfuffle-continues/comment-page-1/#comment-380068</link>
		<dc:creator>Tyler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Aug 2007 12:58:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2007/08/02/obamaclinton-kerfuffle-continues/#comment-380068</guid>
		<description>I think you&#039;re right about Clinton biting off a bit more than she can chew on this.  She wanted to make the focus of the debate Obama&#039;s inexperience, but the way Obama has controlled this scuffle voters may only remember Obama would put diplomacy first while Clinton won&#039;t commit to a meeting.  She may have given the answer that would please the politically savvy, but I don&#039;t think the masses are going to dock Obama any points for not specifically mentioning the possibility a visit from The President could be used for propaganda.  

Clinton:  they could use you for lulz, n00b!
Obama:  OMG really??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you&#8217;re right about Clinton biting off a bit more than she can chew on this.  She wanted to make the focus of the debate Obama&#8217;s inexperience, but the way Obama has controlled this scuffle voters may only remember Obama would put diplomacy first while Clinton won&#8217;t commit to a meeting.  She may have given the answer that would please the politically savvy, but I don&#8217;t think the masses are going to dock Obama any points for not specifically mentioning the possibility a visit from The President could be used for propaganda.  </p>
<p>Clinton:  they could use you for lulz, n00b!<br />
Obama:  OMG really??</p>
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		<title>By: Jimmy the Dhimmi</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2007/08/02/obamaclinton-kerfuffle-continues/comment-page-1/#comment-380067</link>
		<dc:creator>Jimmy the Dhimmi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Aug 2007 12:43:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2007/08/02/obamaclinton-kerfuffle-continues/#comment-380067</guid>
		<description>Wow, you actually think that an invasion of Pakistan will go smoother than the occupation of Iraq?  Will Obama seek a UN resolution?  What if Musharraf says no? Will he do it anyway?  Will Obama gather a grand coalition to invade and occupy the mountainous regions of Waziristan?
&lt;blockquote&gt;On the contrary, al Qaedaâ€™s appeal within Iraq is enhanced by our troop presence.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
But for some reason this standard will not apply to western Pakistan, where Al-qaeda originated.
&lt;blockquote&gt;But we must recognize that al Qaeda is not the primary source of violence in Iraq&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Ah, &quot;The war on terror = the war on the Al-qaeda organization only&quot; meme.  What if Osama bin Laden turns up dead - Is the &quot;global war on terror,&quot; as Obama calls it, over?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, you actually think that an invasion of Pakistan will go smoother than the occupation of Iraq?  Will Obama seek a UN resolution?  What if Musharraf says no? Will he do it anyway?  Will Obama gather a grand coalition to invade and occupy the mountainous regions of Waziristan?</p>
<blockquote><p>On the contrary, al Qaedaâ€™s appeal within Iraq is enhanced by our troop presence.</p></blockquote>
<p>But for some reason this standard will not apply to western Pakistan, where Al-qaeda originated.</p>
<blockquote><p>But we must recognize that al Qaeda is not the primary source of violence in Iraq</p></blockquote>
<p>Ah, &#8220;The war on terror = the war on the Al-qaeda organization only&#8221; meme.  What if Osama bin Laden turns up dead &#8211; Is the &#8220;global war on terror,&#8221; as Obama calls it, over?</p>
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