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	<title>Comments on: The Obama/Hillary Super Tuesday Speeches</title>
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	<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/02/06/the-obamahillary-super-tuesday-speeches/</link>
	<description>Big Teeth. Huge Ass. Surprisingly Reasonable.</description>
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		<title>By: Tony</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/02/06/the-obamahillary-super-tuesday-speeches/comment-page-1/#comment-390567</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2008 21:41:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2008/02/06/the-obamahillary-super-tuesday-speeches/#comment-390567</guid>
		<description>What&#039;s shallow about his message? Don&#039;t rely on the government because it has to be changed first. Work hard for yourself and help each other out. Believe in yourself. Principles this nation was built on. 

Spin all you want, but the message is real and it&#039;s working. 

Dos: I think Obama has taken far more shots at McCain than Hillary has. Iraq, Iran, etc...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What&#8217;s shallow about his message? Don&#8217;t rely on the government because it has to be changed first. Work hard for yourself and help each other out. Believe in yourself. Principles this nation was built on. </p>
<p>Spin all you want, but the message is real and it&#8217;s working. </p>
<p>Dos: I think Obama has taken far more shots at McCain than Hillary has. Iraq, Iran, etc&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: mw</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/02/06/the-obamahillary-super-tuesday-speeches/comment-page-1/#comment-390559</link>
		<dc:creator>mw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2008 18:01:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2008/02/06/the-obamahillary-super-tuesday-speeches/#comment-390559</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;&quot;...does Clinton chose Obama for VP?&lt;/i&gt; - dos&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;b&gt; Yes. Future revealed &lt;a href=&quot;http://donklephant.com/2008/02/05/the-hero-and-the-queen-of-darkness-a-super-tuesday-fairy-tale/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here.&lt;/a&gt;  No charge. &lt;/b&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p><i>&#8220;&#8230;does Clinton chose Obama for VP?</i> &#8211; dos</p></blockquote>
<p><b> Yes. Future revealed <a href="http://donklephant.com/2008/02/05/the-hero-and-the-queen-of-darkness-a-super-tuesday-fairy-tale/" rel="nofollow">here.</a>  No charge. </b></p>
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		<title>By: Dos</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/02/06/the-obamahillary-super-tuesday-speeches/comment-page-1/#comment-390558</link>
		<dc:creator>Dos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2008 17:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2008/02/06/the-obamahillary-super-tuesday-speeches/#comment-390558</guid>
		<description>If McCain wins (&amp; he will) - does Clinton chose Obama for VP? I don&#039;t see that as a safe bet for Billary.  No need to shore up the base with Obama after the primaries &amp; she&#039;ll need a grown-up to get the center undecided.  I don&#039;t think Obama has incredible centrist appeal (he&#039;s not a centrist, he&#039;s a leftist).  His appeal is with the young&#039;ins and some suburbanite cool-aid drinkers and he&#039;s not baptizing them at the rate he needs.  If Obama wins - the Republicans win.  Hillary will go center for the VP and you will see a siginficant shift to the right in the general.  She&#039;s gotten as far out as she feels is politically necessary for the primaries.  The Clintons are good at this shit and, like it or not, they are weathering the storm well and out playing Obama - no matter how many warmed-over MLK speeches the guy gives.  He needs a very fast injection of substance and to take Hill up on her debate offer.  I think he needs to start taking some shots at McCain.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If McCain wins (&amp; he will) &#8211; does Clinton chose Obama for VP? I don&#8217;t see that as a safe bet for Billary.  No need to shore up the base with Obama after the primaries &amp; she&#8217;ll need a grown-up to get the center undecided.  I don&#8217;t think Obama has incredible centrist appeal (he&#8217;s not a centrist, he&#8217;s a leftist).  His appeal is with the young&#8217;ins and some suburbanite cool-aid drinkers and he&#8217;s not baptizing them at the rate he needs.  If Obama wins &#8211; the Republicans win.  Hillary will go center for the VP and you will see a siginficant shift to the right in the general.  She&#8217;s gotten as far out as she feels is politically necessary for the primaries.  The Clintons are good at this shit and, like it or not, they are weathering the storm well and out playing Obama &#8211; no matter how many warmed-over MLK speeches the guy gives.  He needs a very fast injection of substance and to take Hill up on her debate offer.  I think he needs to start taking some shots at McCain.</p>
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		<title>By: mw</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/02/06/the-obamahillary-super-tuesday-speeches/comment-page-1/#comment-390556</link>
		<dc:creator>mw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2008 17:17:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2008/02/06/the-obamahillary-super-tuesday-speeches/#comment-390556</guid>
		<description>Dos - 
As I opined before on the Super Delegate post,  I just don&#039;t believe he can win unless he trounces Hillary in the primaries between now and March 4. I don&#039;t mean continuing a rough 50/50 split, I don&#039;t mean beating her by a few 10s of delegates. He has to trounce her. If not, the Super delegates carry the day for Clinton.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dos &#8211;<br />
As I opined before on the Super Delegate post,  I just don&#8217;t believe he can win unless he trounces Hillary in the primaries between now and March 4. I don&#8217;t mean continuing a rough 50/50 split, I don&#8217;t mean beating her by a few 10s of delegates. He has to trounce her. If not, the Super delegates carry the day for Clinton.</p>
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		<title>By: Dos</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/02/06/the-obamahillary-super-tuesday-speeches/comment-page-1/#comment-390555</link>
		<dc:creator>Dos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2008 17:09:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2008/02/06/the-obamahillary-super-tuesday-speeches/#comment-390555</guid>
		<description>mw - the &quot;we are the ones we&#039;ve been waiting for&quot; is so cliche&#039; that Obama probably didn&#039;t actually plagarize it.  It is all too inspirational for me and not nearly enough...substances.  Okay, I&#039;m on board:  What Now?  What does he want me to do?  Is it inspirational that he plans an massively expanding the size of the federal government?  What, please, someone just inform me that there is something BEYOND Unity?!  Unity for Unity sake is stupid and dangerous.  He is going to fix all of these Problems through Unity???  Really.  He referred to his campaign as a &quot;Movement&quot; in the speech -- well, okay, what does that imply.  

I like Obama, but I have this unfortunate &quot;feeling&quot; (which what that campaign is all about) that his message is an inch deep and is going to get blown away at some point.  He wins through fevered political emotionalism, but moods swing...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>mw &#8211; the &#8220;we are the ones we&#8217;ve been waiting for&#8221; is so cliche&#8217; that Obama probably didn&#8217;t actually plagarize it.  It is all too inspirational for me and not nearly enough&#8230;substances.  Okay, I&#8217;m on board:  What Now?  What does he want me to do?  Is it inspirational that he plans an massively expanding the size of the federal government?  What, please, someone just inform me that there is something BEYOND Unity?!  Unity for Unity sake is stupid and dangerous.  He is going to fix all of these Problems through Unity???  Really.  He referred to his campaign as a &#8220;Movement&#8221; in the speech &#8212; well, okay, what does that imply.  </p>
<p>I like Obama, but I have this unfortunate &#8220;feeling&#8221; (which what that campaign is all about) that his message is an inch deep and is going to get blown away at some point.  He wins through fevered political emotionalism, but moods swing&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Dos</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/02/06/the-obamahillary-super-tuesday-speeches/comment-page-1/#comment-390554</link>
		<dc:creator>Dos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2008 17:01:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2008/02/06/the-obamahillary-super-tuesday-speeches/#comment-390554</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m a traditional Catholic and the other week my wife dragged me to a holy-roll&#039;in Baptist church with some friends of hers.  They were a clapp&#039;in and holler, and yes, a shuck&#039;in and jiving -- it was awesome, but I had a pit at the bottom of my stomach the whole time.  

No matter how much I wanted to join in the fun -- all of my instincts rejected all the glorious happiness.  Spiritual solemnity, quiet piousness, and the solid belief that man is born of original sin and death....I digress...

Obama is the same way for me.  The guy requires the naivity and stupidity of youth.  He is inspiring, but it is the show about nothing.  He did ask for sacrifice, but that sacrifice was airy, undefined and thus, not too painful.  

He would go a long way in my book if he acted as a good Catholic priest in confession:  give a good penance for our sins.  Tell us it is our fault, all our fault and now we have to pay the band or our children will.  Be brutal, be direct - inspiration does not mean make you feel good.  

Yes we can!...pay the bill.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a traditional Catholic and the other week my wife dragged me to a holy-roll&#8217;in Baptist church with some friends of hers.  They were a clapp&#8217;in and holler, and yes, a shuck&#8217;in and jiving &#8212; it was awesome, but I had a pit at the bottom of my stomach the whole time.  </p>
<p>No matter how much I wanted to join in the fun &#8212; all of my instincts rejected all the glorious happiness.  Spiritual solemnity, quiet piousness, and the solid belief that man is born of original sin and death&#8230;.I digress&#8230;</p>
<p>Obama is the same way for me.  The guy requires the naivity and stupidity of youth.  He is inspiring, but it is the show about nothing.  He did ask for sacrifice, but that sacrifice was airy, undefined and thus, not too painful.  </p>
<p>He would go a long way in my book if he acted as a good Catholic priest in confession:  give a good penance for our sins.  Tell us it is our fault, all our fault and now we have to pay the band or our children will.  Be brutal, be direct &#8211; inspiration does not mean make you feel good.  </p>
<p>Yes we can!&#8230;pay the bill.</p>
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		<title>By: mw</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/02/06/the-obamahillary-super-tuesday-speeches/comment-page-1/#comment-390551</link>
		<dc:creator>mw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2008 16:53:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2008/02/06/the-obamahillary-super-tuesday-speeches/#comment-390551</guid>
		<description>Barack clearly won the speechifying hands down. It was a great speech. Inspiring. That line &lt;i&gt;&quot;We are the ones we have been waiting for...&quot; &lt;/i&gt; is uplifting and poetic. Truly poetic. 

Unfortunately, as Donklephant commenter Jodi Vander Molen points out in a comment to Justin&#039;s liveblog post, the line is from &lt;a href=&quot;http://westanddivided.blogspot.com/2008/02/powerful-plagiarism.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; someone else&#039;s poem&lt;/a&gt;. And Barack did not offer attribution. 

    &lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;And who will join this standing up
    and the ones who stood without sweet company
    will sing and sing
    back into the mountains and
    if necessary
    even under the sea:
    we are the ones we have been waiting for.&lt;/i&gt;

from Passion: New Poems, 1977-80, by June Jordan&lt;/blockquote&gt;

When Joe Biden cribbed lines for his speech, it was called plagiarism and he was driven from the 1988 presidential race. I wonder if Obama will get the same treatment from the media.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Barack clearly won the speechifying hands down. It was a great speech. Inspiring. That line <i>&#8220;We are the ones we have been waiting for&#8230;&#8221; </i> is uplifting and poetic. Truly poetic. </p>
<p>Unfortunately, as Donklephant commenter Jodi Vander Molen points out in a comment to Justin&#8217;s liveblog post, the line is from <a href="http://westanddivided.blogspot.com/2008/02/powerful-plagiarism.html" rel="nofollow"> someone else&#8217;s poem</a>. And Barack did not offer attribution. </p>
<blockquote><p><i>And who will join this standing up<br />
    and the ones who stood without sweet company<br />
    will sing and sing<br />
    back into the mountains and<br />
    if necessary<br />
    even under the sea:<br />
    we are the ones we have been waiting for.</i></p>
<p>from Passion: New Poems, 1977-80, by June Jordan</p></blockquote>
<p>When Joe Biden cribbed lines for his speech, it was called plagiarism and he was driven from the 1988 presidential race. I wonder if Obama will get the same treatment from the media.</p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/02/06/the-obamahillary-super-tuesday-speeches/comment-page-1/#comment-390550</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2008 16:45:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2008/02/06/the-obamahillary-super-tuesday-speeches/#comment-390550</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m a republican and Obama still gives me warm fuzzies. It is a strange feeling because I hate the idea of policy being shaped by masses of people feeling good about themselves and patting themselves on the back. 

Clinton can&#039;t win this race, she is a robot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a republican and Obama still gives me warm fuzzies. It is a strange feeling because I hate the idea of policy being shaped by masses of people feeling good about themselves and patting themselves on the back. </p>
<p>Clinton can&#8217;t win this race, she is a robot.</p>
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		<title>By: Agnostick</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/02/06/the-obamahillary-super-tuesday-speeches/comment-page-1/#comment-390548</link>
		<dc:creator>Agnostick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2008 16:13:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2008/02/06/the-obamahillary-super-tuesday-speeches/#comment-390548</guid>
		<description>A couple of more serious points/questions...

1) Was any attempt made--by the campaigns and/or the networks--at some sort of &quot;scheduling&quot; of these speeches?  At one point, when I was flipping around the TV channels, I saw a split-screen of two of the Republicans.  I &lt;i&gt;think&lt;/i&gt; it was McCain and Huckabee.  Clinton and Obama, on the other hand, didn&#039;t step on each other&#039;s speeches.

2) I&#039;m not normally a big fan of Faux News, but the other networks were getting on my nerves, for some reason, and I watched most of Obama&#039;s speech on Faux.  Shortly after it was over, Brit Hume pointed out one woman in the crowd behind Obama.  If you watch the video above, it&#039;s the blonde with her hair pulled back, wearing a tan/beige shirt over a black t-shirt--she&#039;s only half-visible on the right edge of the screen, the way CNN framed their shot.  Anyways, Hume said of this woman, something like, &quot;Notice how she&#039;s just not listening to his speech; she&#039;s hanging on every word that comes out of his mouth.  She&#039;s crying, clapping, emoting.  This is what&#039;s missing from American politics... we need a lot more of this in American politics.&quot;  Anyone else see that?

Lastly, I couldn&#039;t help but notice during the few minutes that I was watching Faux, how much they&#039;re playing up Hillary.  It&#039;s almost as if they &lt;i&gt;want&lt;/i&gt; Hillary to win, and maybe for the same reason that Rush, SLAnnder and some of the others want Hillary to prevail:  It will give them a chance to drag out and dust off all their old, tired anti-Clinton material... along with any of the new anti-Clinton stuff that was probably written several weeks, if not several months ago.

If Obama prevails in Denver, they&#039;ll have to come up with new material, rather than just pushing the button marked &lt;b&gt;PLAY&lt;/b&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A couple of more serious points/questions&#8230;</p>
<p>1) Was any attempt made&#8211;by the campaigns and/or the networks&#8211;at some sort of &#8220;scheduling&#8221; of these speeches?  At one point, when I was flipping around the TV channels, I saw a split-screen of two of the Republicans.  I <i>think</i> it was McCain and Huckabee.  Clinton and Obama, on the other hand, didn&#8217;t step on each other&#8217;s speeches.</p>
<p>2) I&#8217;m not normally a big fan of Faux News, but the other networks were getting on my nerves, for some reason, and I watched most of Obama&#8217;s speech on Faux.  Shortly after it was over, Brit Hume pointed out one woman in the crowd behind Obama.  If you watch the video above, it&#8217;s the blonde with her hair pulled back, wearing a tan/beige shirt over a black t-shirt&#8211;she&#8217;s only half-visible on the right edge of the screen, the way CNN framed their shot.  Anyways, Hume said of this woman, something like, &#8220;Notice how she&#8217;s just not listening to his speech; she&#8217;s hanging on every word that comes out of his mouth.  She&#8217;s crying, clapping, emoting.  This is what&#8217;s missing from American politics&#8230; we need a lot more of this in American politics.&#8221;  Anyone else see that?</p>
<p>Lastly, I couldn&#8217;t help but notice during the few minutes that I was watching Faux, how much they&#8217;re playing up Hillary.  It&#8217;s almost as if they <i>want</i> Hillary to win, and maybe for the same reason that Rush, SLAnnder and some of the others want Hillary to prevail:  It will give them a chance to drag out and dust off all their old, tired anti-Clinton material&#8230; along with any of the new anti-Clinton stuff that was probably written several weeks, if not several months ago.</p>
<p>If Obama prevails in Denver, they&#8217;ll have to come up with new material, rather than just pushing the button marked <b>PLAY</b>.</p>
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		<title>By: Agnostick</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/02/06/the-obamahillary-super-tuesday-speeches/comment-page-1/#comment-390547</link>
		<dc:creator>Agnostick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2008 15:40:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2008/02/06/the-obamahillary-super-tuesday-speeches/#comment-390547</guid>
		<description>Obama&#039;s speech physically aroused me.

Don&#039;t know if that will carry over to the ballot box in November... but last night... dah-yum...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obama&#8217;s speech physically aroused me.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t know if that will carry over to the ballot box in November&#8230; but last night&#8230; dah-yum&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Swatty</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/02/06/the-obamahillary-super-tuesday-speeches/comment-page-1/#comment-390535</link>
		<dc:creator>Swatty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2008 07:41:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2008/02/06/the-obamahillary-super-tuesday-speeches/#comment-390535</guid>
		<description>Hilary was constantly looking down at her notes.  Obama didn&#039;t appear to have any notes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hilary was constantly looking down at her notes.  Obama didn&#8217;t appear to have any notes.</p>
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