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	<title>Comments on: Protectionism Doesn&#8217;t Play in Texas</title>
	<atom:link href="http://donklephant.com/2008/03/03/protectionism-doesnt-play-in-texas/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/03/03/protectionism-doesnt-play-in-texas/</link>
	<description>Big Teeth. Huge Ass. Surprisingly Reasonable.</description>
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		<title>By: Jim S</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/03/03/protectionism-doesnt-play-in-texas/comment-page-1/#comment-392612</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 02:42:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2008/03/03/protectionism-doesnt-play-in-texas/#comment-392612</guid>
		<description>Alan,

   I don&#039;t mean my comment as a blanket condemnation of Asian companies, especially the Japanese firms that have located factories here. I mean to refer only to those that are based solely on the bottom line provided by cheap labor. Most of them are in fact subcontractors manufacturing things for companies that are only American or European in terms of their office staff and marketing people being in those locations. They are the kind of companies that are closing their doors in China because the relatively small amount that operating costs have gone up there recently make them unhappy.

   I think the feds would have to underwrite not only the actual costs of re-training but pay for the costs of staffing the program as well. States that get slammed like Michigan, Ohio and the Carolinas don&#039;t even have the resources to cover that. Trying to bring smaller government bodies into it would only add another layer of management and potential for confusion. It must be remembered that helping with the costs of re-training isn&#039;t enough. Living expenses don&#039;t just magically disappear while someone is training for a new career. I agree with you about relocation help. It&#039;s also likely to be necessary. Of course I&#039;d also like to see some &quot;inshoring&quot;. Consider those companies that are located in places with outrageously high costs like New York, Silicon Valley or Los Angeles that locate operations in India. Some kind of encouragement to relocate within the U.S. to areas with lower living expenses, real estate costs, native English speakers and a nearby time zone would be a good thing. In my job I&#039;ve had to deal with Dell tech support as well as AT&amp;T/Yahoo. Sometimes it&#039;s good but most of the time their Tier One support just doesn&#039;t cut it in both technical and English skills.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alan,</p>
<p>   I don&#8217;t mean my comment as a blanket condemnation of Asian companies, especially the Japanese firms that have located factories here. I mean to refer only to those that are based solely on the bottom line provided by cheap labor. Most of them are in fact subcontractors manufacturing things for companies that are only American or European in terms of their office staff and marketing people being in those locations. They are the kind of companies that are closing their doors in China because the relatively small amount that operating costs have gone up there recently make them unhappy.</p>
<p>   I think the feds would have to underwrite not only the actual costs of re-training but pay for the costs of staffing the program as well. States that get slammed like Michigan, Ohio and the Carolinas don&#8217;t even have the resources to cover that. Trying to bring smaller government bodies into it would only add another layer of management and potential for confusion. It must be remembered that helping with the costs of re-training isn&#8217;t enough. Living expenses don&#8217;t just magically disappear while someone is training for a new career. I agree with you about relocation help. It&#8217;s also likely to be necessary. Of course I&#8217;d also like to see some &#8220;inshoring&#8221;. Consider those companies that are located in places with outrageously high costs like New York, Silicon Valley or Los Angeles that locate operations in India. Some kind of encouragement to relocate within the U.S. to areas with lower living expenses, real estate costs, native English speakers and a nearby time zone would be a good thing. In my job I&#8217;ve had to deal with Dell tech support as well as AT&amp;T/Yahoo. Sometimes it&#8217;s good but most of the time their Tier One support just doesn&#8217;t cut it in both technical and English skills.</p>
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		<title>By: Alan Stewart Carl</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/03/03/protectionism-doesnt-play-in-texas/comment-page-1/#comment-392588</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Stewart Carl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2008 21:47:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2008/03/03/protectionism-doesnt-play-in-texas/#comment-392588</guid>
		<description>Jim,

Asian manufacturers have also located plants in the US -- Toyota opened a huge plant in Texas just last year. And those jobs have good benefits. The plant isn&#039;t directly related to NAFTA but San Antonio won the plant in part because it&#039;s now on a major transport route thanks to NAFTA. In fact, Texas has seen a lot of second-wave benefits with blue collar jobs arriving first and then the white collar jobs following.

This may surprise you, but I completely agree with you that those who&#039;ve lost their jobs thanks to free trade should not be left to suffer. I very much support subsidized retraining programs but I do question whether this is something the federal government should handle or whether it would be better on a state-by-state or even city-by-city basis (I&#039;m not talking funding, just administration and execution). We might also need to consider relocation help because there are some areas that just aren&#039;t coming back on line.

What I don&#039;t like is NAFTA being used as a boogeyman -- not because it&#039;s some perfect agreement but because one way or another, we&#039;re going global. Trade agreements help manage that transition and while jobs are undeniably lost, the hope is that it&#039;s better to transition slowly and constructively rather than holding on to protectionism until the whole thing collapses. &quot;Fixing&quot; NAFTA is not going to stop globalization or bring back the jobs. I&#039;d prefer a more proactive than reactive response to the problems.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim,</p>
<p>Asian manufacturers have also located plants in the US &#8212; Toyota opened a huge plant in Texas just last year. And those jobs have good benefits. The plant isn&#8217;t directly related to NAFTA but San Antonio won the plant in part because it&#8217;s now on a major transport route thanks to NAFTA. In fact, Texas has seen a lot of second-wave benefits with blue collar jobs arriving first and then the white collar jobs following.</p>
<p>This may surprise you, but I completely agree with you that those who&#8217;ve lost their jobs thanks to free trade should not be left to suffer. I very much support subsidized retraining programs but I do question whether this is something the federal government should handle or whether it would be better on a state-by-state or even city-by-city basis (I&#8217;m not talking funding, just administration and execution). We might also need to consider relocation help because there are some areas that just aren&#8217;t coming back on line.</p>
<p>What I don&#8217;t like is NAFTA being used as a boogeyman &#8212; not because it&#8217;s some perfect agreement but because one way or another, we&#8217;re going global. Trade agreements help manage that transition and while jobs are undeniably lost, the hope is that it&#8217;s better to transition slowly and constructively rather than holding on to protectionism until the whole thing collapses. &#8220;Fixing&#8221; NAFTA is not going to stop globalization or bring back the jobs. I&#8217;d prefer a more proactive than reactive response to the problems.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim S</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/03/03/protectionism-doesnt-play-in-texas/comment-page-1/#comment-392564</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2008 18:21:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2008/03/03/protectionism-doesnt-play-in-texas/#comment-392564</guid>
		<description>Be honest, folks. NAFTA has hurt parts of the country other than Texas but it has nothing to do with jobs going to China. NAFTA has helped Asian manufacturers who have chosen to take advantage of it by locating some facilities in Mexico.

But it really doesn&#039;t matter what the cause is, there are enough people with enough influence to make certain that nothing is done to help the people hurt by the combination of extremely cheap labor abroad and technology that can automate a huge variety of jobs or reduce the number of people necessary to  achieve the same level of productivity. It&#039;s not that they really think of it as hurting anyone, they are just ideologically certain that leaving things alone is the best thing to do. Let the markets work their magic. If those people are worthy they will work hard, go into debt for their re-training and if they won the crap shoot by choosing the right thing to study so that there is still a market for them they will find a job that hopefully isn&#039;t too much of a reduction of income from where they were at. And that&#039;s the way it should be because the government shouldn&#039;t do anything that might interfere with the wisdom of the markets. 

BTW, if NAFTA is producing jobs in southern Texas what do they pay? Are there benefits? Health insurance? All jobs are not created equal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Be honest, folks. NAFTA has hurt parts of the country other than Texas but it has nothing to do with jobs going to China. NAFTA has helped Asian manufacturers who have chosen to take advantage of it by locating some facilities in Mexico.</p>
<p>But it really doesn&#8217;t matter what the cause is, there are enough people with enough influence to make certain that nothing is done to help the people hurt by the combination of extremely cheap labor abroad and technology that can automate a huge variety of jobs or reduce the number of people necessary to  achieve the same level of productivity. It&#8217;s not that they really think of it as hurting anyone, they are just ideologically certain that leaving things alone is the best thing to do. Let the markets work their magic. If those people are worthy they will work hard, go into debt for their re-training and if they won the crap shoot by choosing the right thing to study so that there is still a market for them they will find a job that hopefully isn&#8217;t too much of a reduction of income from where they were at. And that&#8217;s the way it should be because the government shouldn&#8217;t do anything that might interfere with the wisdom of the markets. </p>
<p>BTW, if NAFTA is producing jobs in southern Texas what do they pay? Are there benefits? Health insurance? All jobs are not created equal.</p>
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		<title>By: Alan Stewart Carl</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/03/03/protectionism-doesnt-play-in-texas/comment-page-1/#comment-392560</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Stewart Carl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2008 17:35:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2008/03/03/protectionism-doesnt-play-in-texas/#comment-392560</guid>
		<description>Pug, the economy of Texas in 1986 and in 2008 is very different. Yes, oil prices have helped keep the Texas economy going strong but they have nothing to do with the boom of places like El Paso, Laredo, McAllen or even Austin and San Antonio. NAFTA has done a lot of good for Texas. Not only has it created direct trade-based businesses but it has attracted other companies who rely partly on materials from Mexico or want access to the strong shipping options available in this state.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pug, the economy of Texas in 1986 and in 2008 is very different. Yes, oil prices have helped keep the Texas economy going strong but they have nothing to do with the boom of places like El Paso, Laredo, McAllen or even Austin and San Antonio. NAFTA has done a lot of good for Texas. Not only has it created direct trade-based businesses but it has attracted other companies who rely partly on materials from Mexico or want access to the strong shipping options available in this state.</p>
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		<title>By: Bubbles</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/03/03/protectionism-doesnt-play-in-texas/comment-page-1/#comment-392555</link>
		<dc:creator>Bubbles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2008 16:40:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2008/03/03/protectionism-doesnt-play-in-texas/#comment-392555</guid>
		<description>This presidency is getting sillier by the day. Originally, the president&#039;s main task was to simply enforce the laws that congress passed, and veto those laws which the president considered to be unconstitutional. Now they promise things left and right, some which might be appealing in one state but repulsive in another... all based on the best electoral strategy. I refuse to believe that most Democrats or Republicans hold the same legitimate concerns of the people that they represent... instead they just adopt what the people want to hear and do it to get elected. All this talk of protectionism is an attempt to get votes. I doubt that any politician genuinely cares about the various effects of free trade agreements like NAFTA... and while there have indeed been negative effects, protectionism will have negative effects too. And ten years from now Democrats will run on why we need to get back to freer trade after the ridiculous price increases come about due to tariffs being imposed on cheaper foreign goods.  I&#039;m convinced: there is no solution to anything. Period. ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This presidency is getting sillier by the day. Originally, the president&#8217;s main task was to simply enforce the laws that congress passed, and veto those laws which the president considered to be unconstitutional. Now they promise things left and right, some which might be appealing in one state but repulsive in another&#8230; all based on the best electoral strategy. I refuse to believe that most Democrats or Republicans hold the same legitimate concerns of the people that they represent&#8230; instead they just adopt what the people want to hear and do it to get elected. All this talk of protectionism is an attempt to get votes. I doubt that any politician genuinely cares about the various effects of free trade agreements like NAFTA&#8230; and while there have indeed been negative effects, protectionism will have negative effects too. And ten years from now Democrats will run on why we need to get back to freer trade after the ridiculous price increases come about due to tariffs being imposed on cheaper foreign goods.  I&#8217;m convinced: there is no solution to anything. Period. ;-)</p>
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		<title>By: Susanna</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/03/03/protectionism-doesnt-play-in-texas/comment-page-1/#comment-392554</link>
		<dc:creator>Susanna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2008 16:22:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2008/03/03/protectionism-doesnt-play-in-texas/#comment-392554</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve heard this argument around our state (SC) for a few years now. In the past, we generated jobs by trying to attract manufacturers with tax incentives, cheap land, and cheap labor. Now that a lot of those manufacturers are heading overseas, where the land and labor are even cheaper, the state govt. has finally realized they need a new strategy for attracting jobs. Of course, no one can agree on what that strategy should be, but at least they&#039;ve realized that the world is moving on and we need to move with it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve heard this argument around our state (SC) for a few years now. In the past, we generated jobs by trying to attract manufacturers with tax incentives, cheap land, and cheap labor. Now that a lot of those manufacturers are heading overseas, where the land and labor are even cheaper, the state govt. has finally realized they need a new strategy for attracting jobs. Of course, no one can agree on what that strategy should be, but at least they&#8217;ve realized that the world is moving on and we need to move with it.</p>
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		<title>By: annasia</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/03/03/protectionism-doesnt-play-in-texas/comment-page-1/#comment-392553</link>
		<dc:creator>annasia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2008 16:18:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2008/03/03/protectionism-doesnt-play-in-texas/#comment-392553</guid>
		<description>Watch this VIDEO: NAFTA, McCain, Clinton and Change:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qH6shHjrhAg</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Watch this VIDEO: NAFTA, McCain, Clinton and Change:<br />
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qH6shHjrhAg" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qH6shHjrhAg</a></p>
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		<title>By: Pug</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/03/03/protectionism-doesnt-play-in-texas/comment-page-1/#comment-392552</link>
		<dc:creator>Pug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2008 15:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2008/03/03/protectionism-doesnt-play-in-texas/#comment-392552</guid>
		<description>The price of oil going from $35/bbl in 2004 to $103/bbl today has done a lot more to benefit the economy in Texas than NAFTA.

In 1986, the price of oil dropping from $36/bbl to $10/bbl devastated the economy of Texas.  All the banks went bust and Houston alone lost 300,000 jobs in one year.  A recession hit this state that makes Ohio of today look like it&#039;s booming.

For the Wall Street Journal to point to the economy today in Texas and give all the credit to NAFTA is as disingenous as it gets.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The price of oil going from $35/bbl in 2004 to $103/bbl today has done a lot more to benefit the economy in Texas than NAFTA.</p>
<p>In 1986, the price of oil dropping from $36/bbl to $10/bbl devastated the economy of Texas.  All the banks went bust and Houston alone lost 300,000 jobs in one year.  A recession hit this state that makes Ohio of today look like it&#8217;s booming.</p>
<p>For the Wall Street Journal to point to the economy today in Texas and give all the credit to NAFTA is as disingenous as it gets.</p>
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