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	<title>Comments on: Air Force Tanker Deal Makes Sense</title>
	<atom:link href="http://donklephant.com/2008/03/12/airforce-tanker-deal-makes-sense/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/03/12/airforce-tanker-deal-makes-sense/</link>
	<description>Big Teeth. Huge Ass. Surprisingly Reasonable.</description>
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		<title>By: Ken</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/03/12/airforce-tanker-deal-makes-sense/comment-page-1/#comment-394057</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Mar 2008 00:45:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2008/03/12/airforce-tanker-deal-makes-sense/#comment-394057</guid>
		<description>The manufacturing guys over at Evolving Excellence have also been taking Boeing to task, first in terms of the hypocrisy of whining about losing the tanker deal to NG/Airbus at:

http://www.evolvingexcellence.com/blog/2008/03/boeing-whiner-e.html

Then the even greater hypocrisy of the politicians that are siding with Boeing:

http://www.evolvingexcellence.com/blog/2008/03/so-whos-more-pa.html

Ken</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The manufacturing guys over at Evolving Excellence have also been taking Boeing to task, first in terms of the hypocrisy of whining about losing the tanker deal to NG/Airbus at:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.evolvingexcellence.com/blog/2008/03/boeing-whiner-e.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.evolvingexcellence.com/blog/2008/03/boeing-whiner-e.html</a></p>
<p>Then the even greater hypocrisy of the politicians that are siding with Boeing:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.evolvingexcellence.com/blog/2008/03/so-whos-more-pa.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.evolvingexcellence.com/blog/2008/03/so-whos-more-pa.html</a></p>
<p>Ken</p>
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		<title>By: Tbear</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/03/12/airforce-tanker-deal-makes-sense/comment-page-1/#comment-393778</link>
		<dc:creator>Tbear</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Mar 2008 20:57:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2008/03/12/airforce-tanker-deal-makes-sense/#comment-393778</guid>
		<description>Apparently the pundits pushing Airbus do not understand recent history, nor do they understand basic global economics of the commercial airplane manufacturing business.  With due respect to Mr. Lifson, his proposal rewards EADS/Airbus for its earlier predatory behavior that adversely affected airplane manufacturers other than Boeing.  

Airbus, because of its subsidy base origins, pushed Lockheed out of commercial airplane manufacturing, and so undercut McDonnell Douglas it courted a deal with Boeing in 1997 since they were about to go bankrupt because their commerial offerings could not compete with Airbus socialist built planes.  This is a very important point.   Airbus built what are called &quot;white tails,&quot; airplanes for which no buyer had yet been found.  Typically airlines do custom orders on planes, which are placed in line to be built in the future.  Airbus sold their whitetails (because they were subisidized) at steep discounts, as they were not beholding to shareholders expecting profits.  they wer just interested in a jobs program for their respective countries.  Similarly the subsidy issue allows them to offer cheaper capital cost planes than Boeing.  However, the lifecycle costs are higher because the A330&#039;s cost more to operate.  They are not a better plane than the 767, just different.  And, to make a distinction here, bigger is not always better.  Bigger planes are not as nimble, even as tankers.

The A330 is a larger (longer, wider, taller, heavier) airplane and it cannot land or take off from some of the airfields in a battle theatre.  It is too large to fit in the hangars where it would need to be serviced.  That means the Air Force will have to get new or modified buildings along with their new tanker.  This was not part of the competition but it will cost taxpayers even more in future budgets.  Do you not think this should have been, or now should be disclosed as a cost of selecting the A330 platform?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apparently the pundits pushing Airbus do not understand recent history, nor do they understand basic global economics of the commercial airplane manufacturing business.  With due respect to Mr. Lifson, his proposal rewards EADS/Airbus for its earlier predatory behavior that adversely affected airplane manufacturers other than Boeing.  </p>
<p>Airbus, because of its subsidy base origins, pushed Lockheed out of commercial airplane manufacturing, and so undercut McDonnell Douglas it courted a deal with Boeing in 1997 since they were about to go bankrupt because their commerial offerings could not compete with Airbus socialist built planes.  This is a very important point.   Airbus built what are called &#8220;white tails,&#8221; airplanes for which no buyer had yet been found.  Typically airlines do custom orders on planes, which are placed in line to be built in the future.  Airbus sold their whitetails (because they were subisidized) at steep discounts, as they were not beholding to shareholders expecting profits.  they wer just interested in a jobs program for their respective countries.  Similarly the subsidy issue allows them to offer cheaper capital cost planes than Boeing.  However, the lifecycle costs are higher because the A330&#8217;s cost more to operate.  They are not a better plane than the 767, just different.  And, to make a distinction here, bigger is not always better.  Bigger planes are not as nimble, even as tankers.</p>
<p>The A330 is a larger (longer, wider, taller, heavier) airplane and it cannot land or take off from some of the airfields in a battle theatre.  It is too large to fit in the hangars where it would need to be serviced.  That means the Air Force will have to get new or modified buildings along with their new tanker.  This was not part of the competition but it will cost taxpayers even more in future budgets.  Do you not think this should have been, or now should be disclosed as a cost of selecting the A330 platform?</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/03/12/airforce-tanker-deal-makes-sense/comment-page-1/#comment-393741</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Mar 2008 14:58:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2008/03/12/airforce-tanker-deal-makes-sense/#comment-393741</guid>
		<description>What would you have the Airforce do? only allow Boeing to exclusively sell planes to the USAF? .

Thats just damn fraudulent! It means Boeings previous aquisitions to get rid of competition enables it to get big fat and lazy. Boeing is becomming the HOme Depot of the USAF...



Airbus was a much better aircraft.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What would you have the Airforce do? only allow Boeing to exclusively sell planes to the USAF? .</p>
<p>Thats just damn fraudulent! It means Boeings previous aquisitions to get rid of competition enables it to get big fat and lazy. Boeing is becomming the HOme Depot of the USAF&#8230;</p>
<p>Airbus was a much better aircraft.</p>
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		<title>By: S.W. Anderson</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/03/12/airforce-tanker-deal-makes-sense/comment-page-1/#comment-393676</link>
		<dc:creator>S.W. Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Mar 2008 01:34:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2008/03/12/airforce-tanker-deal-makes-sense/#comment-393676</guid>
		<description>Yeah, gee, I think we ought to contract out the duties of the Army, Navy, Air Force and Coast Guard. I mean, if Mexico can supply an Army for half price and Russia wins the Navy bid, why not?  Maybe next time, former U.S. soldiers and sailors will get their act together and offer more for less.

When you get down to it, why do we even need Boeing at all? Hey, a little reverse engineering and China will be able to sell 777 copies at 40 percent less.

Seriously, Lifson is a fine example of those who know the cost of everything and the value of nothing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, gee, I think we ought to contract out the duties of the Army, Navy, Air Force and Coast Guard. I mean, if Mexico can supply an Army for half price and Russia wins the Navy bid, why not?  Maybe next time, former U.S. soldiers and sailors will get their act together and offer more for less.</p>
<p>When you get down to it, why do we even need Boeing at all? Hey, a little reverse engineering and China will be able to sell 777 copies at 40 percent less.</p>
<p>Seriously, Lifson is a fine example of those who know the cost of everything and the value of nothing.</p>
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