Comments on: Public Now More Optimistic About Iraq http://donklephant.com/2008/03/13/public-now-more-optimistic-about-iraq/ Big Teeth. Huge Ass. Surprisingly Reasonable. Sat, 22 Nov 2008 14:33:42 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: Dr. Saturn http://donklephant.com/2008/03/13/public-now-more-optimistic-about-iraq/#comment-393825 Dr. Saturn Fri, 14 Mar 2008 03:37:40 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2008/03/13/public-now-more-optimistic-about-iraq/#comment-393825 I wouldn't be surprised to see the Dems (or at least Clinton) start supporting the war and change her buzzwords from "change" to "victory". I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Dems (or at least Clinton) start supporting the war and change her buzzwords from “change” to “victory”.

]]> By: Kim http://donklephant.com/2008/03/13/public-now-more-optimistic-about-iraq/#comment-393815 Kim Fri, 14 Mar 2008 01:38:05 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2008/03/13/public-now-more-optimistic-about-iraq/#comment-393815 3,987 of our fighting men and women are now dead in Iraq. 12 in the last week. What political progress has been made? Well, before last week, I too was optimistic. After all, it would be wonderful if this mess could be resolved and Iraq became a shining light of democracy for the Iraqi people and for us. Some real political progress had been made -- it wasn't a great deal, but it was something. What happened last week? The Iraqi Supreme Court struck all of that progress down as against the Iraqi Constitution -- apparently, the Court was afraid that the progress in question would benefit Moqtada Al Sadri (spelling?) too much. There wasn't a real question of unconstitutionality. Now what? Also, the number of civilians dying in Iraq has doubled in March from January. Something bad is stirring again. I am reading that although Moqtada Al Sadri agreed to extend the truce, he doesn't really have control anymore. The Iraqi people still want us out and now according to every poll. And finally, 12 of our troops were lost last week. I know the media is busy focusing on the election and most people aren't following what is actually happening in Iraq. But I am. I hope it will get better again and I hope the recent signs there do not reflect a downward trend. However, we need to stay realistic about this. We cannot police a civil war forever. 3,987 of our fighting men and women are now dead in Iraq. 12 in the last week. What political progress has been made? Well, before last week, I too was optimistic. After all, it would be wonderful if this mess could be resolved and Iraq became a shining light of democracy for the Iraqi people and for us. Some real political progress had been made — it wasn’t a great deal, but it was something. What happened last week? The Iraqi Supreme Court struck all of that progress down as against the Iraqi Constitution — apparently, the Court was afraid that the progress in question would benefit Moqtada Al Sadri (spelling?) too much. There wasn’t a real question of unconstitutionality. Now what?

Also, the number of civilians dying in Iraq has doubled in March from January. Something bad is stirring again. I am reading that although Moqtada Al Sadri agreed to extend the truce, he doesn’t really have control anymore. The Iraqi people still want us out and now according to every poll. And finally, 12 of our troops were lost last week.

I know the media is busy focusing on the election and most people aren’t following what is actually happening in Iraq. But I am. I hope it will get better again and I hope the recent signs there do not reflect a downward trend. However, we need to stay realistic about this. We cannot police a civil war forever.

]]> By: Alan Stewart Carl http://donklephant.com/2008/03/13/public-now-more-optimistic-about-iraq/#comment-393781 Alan Stewart Carl Thu, 13 Mar 2008 21:17:14 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2008/03/13/public-now-more-optimistic-about-iraq/#comment-393781 Pew is a reputable polling source. I think it's reasonable to assume they're data is decent -- anyway, I'm more concerned with the trend than the actual percentage who believe this or that. As for Doug's comments -- hold on, you're taking this FAR beyond the point of this post and inferring all kinds of things that aren't implied. My use of the word "ideology" just meant that some politicians have a tendancy to continue hold on to certain beliefs even if the facts no longer support them. Also, I don't think it's unreasonable to think stablitiy in Iraq could favor the Dems. I reject that they have to hope for people to die in order to prove their point. Pew is a reputable polling source. I think it’s reasonable to assume they’re data is decent — anyway, I’m more concerned with the trend than the actual percentage who believe this or that.

As for Doug’s comments — hold on, you’re taking this FAR beyond the point of this post and inferring all kinds of things that aren’t implied. My use of the word “ideology” just meant that some politicians have a tendancy to continue hold on to certain beliefs even if the facts no longer support them.

Also, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to think stablitiy in Iraq could favor the Dems. I reject that they have to hope for people to die in order to prove their point.

]]> By: TerenceC http://donklephant.com/2008/03/13/public-now-more-optimistic-about-iraq/#comment-393771 TerenceC Thu, 13 Mar 2008 19:02:21 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2008/03/13/public-now-more-optimistic-about-iraq/#comment-393771 How can anyone assign 53% to something that has never been defined? Just what - exactly - is success in Iraq? This is just BS - and more BS - it's like that never ending war from "1984". How can anyone assign 53% to something that has never been defined? Just what - exactly - is success in Iraq? This is just BS - and more BS - it’s like that never ending war from “1984″.

]]> By: Rob http://donklephant.com/2008/03/13/public-now-more-optimistic-about-iraq/#comment-393768 Rob Thu, 13 Mar 2008 18:27:10 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2008/03/13/public-now-more-optimistic-about-iraq/#comment-393768 You really need to stop reading the politico. A more appropriate poll would be the USA Today/Gallup (released today) that asks: Which would be better for the United States? Keep a significant number of troops in Iraq until the situation there gets better: 35% Set a timetable for removing troops and stick to it regardless of what is going on in Iraq: 60% From here: http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/03/13/politico/ You really need to stop reading the politico.

A more appropriate poll would be the USA Today/Gallup (released today) that asks:
Which would be better for the United States?

Keep a significant number of troops in Iraq until the situation there gets better: 35%

Set a timetable for removing troops and stick to it regardless of what is going on in Iraq: 60%

From here:
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/03/13/politico/

]]> By: Avinash_Tyagi http://donklephant.com/2008/03/13/public-now-more-optimistic-about-iraq/#comment-393763 Avinash_Tyagi Thu, 13 Mar 2008 17:58:47 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2008/03/13/public-now-more-optimistic-about-iraq/#comment-393763 Dozens more dead today as car bombs go off in Iraq Dozens more dead today as car bombs go off in Iraq

]]> By: Doug http://donklephant.com/2008/03/13/public-now-more-optimistic-about-iraq/#comment-393761 Doug Thu, 13 Mar 2008 17:53:55 +0000 http://donklephant.com/2008/03/13/public-now-more-optimistic-about-iraq/#comment-393761 Surely you are kidding yourselves here? The Democrats have bet the farm that Iraq will keep getting worse. Likewise, McCain has staked everything on it remaining stable. If it gets much worse again, whoever the Dem candidate is will have "I told you so" rights (Obama more than Clinton, but at that stage it won't matter). If it keeps improving, McCain will rightly claim that he stood up for the surge when everyone considered it political suicide to do so. A final note: What do you mean when you say "Ideology"? Are you suggesting that candidates not have high ideals? Is it wrong to have an ideology that the poor should be fed? Should we avoid an ideology of taking care of our environment? Unfortunately, we have managed to take a perfectly good word - one that has actual meaning - and reduced it to mere marketing lingo. Apply your leadership concepts to how Churchill managed the war against Germany. Analyze his "Never Surrender" speech against your advise. Leaders do what they believe is right, even when it is very unpopular. Surely you are kidding yourselves here? The Democrats have bet the farm that Iraq will keep getting worse. Likewise, McCain has staked everything on it remaining stable.

If it gets much worse again, whoever the Dem candidate is will have “I told you so” rights (Obama more than Clinton, but at that stage it won’t matter). If it keeps improving, McCain will rightly claim that he stood up for the surge when everyone considered it political suicide to do so.

A final note: What do you mean when you say “Ideology”? Are you suggesting that candidates not have high ideals? Is it wrong to have an ideology that the poor should be fed? Should we avoid an ideology of taking care of our environment? Unfortunately, we have managed to take a perfectly good word - one that has actual meaning - and reduced it to mere marketing lingo.

Apply your leadership concepts to how Churchill managed the war against Germany. Analyze his “Never Surrender” speech against your advise. Leaders do what they believe is right, even when it is very unpopular.

]]>