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	<title>Comments on: Obama, Wright and The Moral Obtuseness of Conservatives</title>
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	<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/03/20/obama-wright-and-the-moral-obtuseness-of-conservatives/</link>
	<description>Big Teeth. Huge Ass. Surprisingly Reasonable.</description>
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		<title>By: Antonio de Ridder</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/03/20/obama-wright-and-the-moral-obtuseness-of-conservatives/comment-page-1/#comment-394636</link>
		<dc:creator>Antonio de Ridder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Mar 2008 16:41:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2008/03/20/obama-wright-and-the-moral-obtuseness-of-conservatives/#comment-394636</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your post, Sunny Girl - I watched some FULL videos of the Rev. Wright&#039;s sermons last night myself, and I was disgusted with the way the television news media has edited out the parts of his sermons that actually explain his supposedly &quot;incendiary&quot; statements.  Nobody has any right to comment on this manufactured controversy without seeing those tapes in full.  Wright&#039;s sermons, once you&#039;ve seen them in their entirety, might still make you uncomfortable, but I think that most viewers&#039; discomfort would arise from a quite different source: those sermons get to the heart of United States foreign policy hypocrisy and point out numerous instances of terrorism enacted in the name of Americans.  And no, I&#039;m not buying the argument that the U.S. can kill unarmed civilians by the thousands without those actions counting as &quot;terrorism&quot; simply because they were carried out by the U.S.  In fact, Wright&#039;s &quot;chickens coming home to roost&quot; comment was a direct quote taken from REAGAN&#039;s ambassador Peck, who has also explained that U.S. government officials had an extremely difficult time agreeing, in the 1980s, on a strict definition of &quot;terrorism&quot; because every definition they could come up with wound up describing the unapologetic actions of the American government at some time in our (often recent) past.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your post, Sunny Girl &#8211; I watched some FULL videos of the Rev. Wright&#8217;s sermons last night myself, and I was disgusted with the way the television news media has edited out the parts of his sermons that actually explain his supposedly &#8220;incendiary&#8221; statements.  Nobody has any right to comment on this manufactured controversy without seeing those tapes in full.  Wright&#8217;s sermons, once you&#8217;ve seen them in their entirety, might still make you uncomfortable, but I think that most viewers&#8217; discomfort would arise from a quite different source: those sermons get to the heart of United States foreign policy hypocrisy and point out numerous instances of terrorism enacted in the name of Americans.  And no, I&#8217;m not buying the argument that the U.S. can kill unarmed civilians by the thousands without those actions counting as &#8220;terrorism&#8221; simply because they were carried out by the U.S.  In fact, Wright&#8217;s &#8220;chickens coming home to roost&#8221; comment was a direct quote taken from REAGAN&#8217;s ambassador Peck, who has also explained that U.S. government officials had an extremely difficult time agreeing, in the 1980s, on a strict definition of &#8220;terrorism&#8221; because every definition they could come up with wound up describing the unapologetic actions of the American government at some time in our (often recent) past.</p>
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		<title>By: Sunny Girl</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/03/20/obama-wright-and-the-moral-obtuseness-of-conservatives/comment-page-1/#comment-394621</link>
		<dc:creator>Sunny Girl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Mar 2008 08:44:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2008/03/20/obama-wright-and-the-moral-obtuseness-of-conservatives/#comment-394621</guid>
		<description>Blasphemy in the media. The truth about Rev. Wright. 

Enlighten yourself and see the truth before passing judgment on false pretences.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOdlnzkeoyQ 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvMbeVQj6Lw 

If you watch these videos, you will see that Rev. Wright is a God loving Christian. He is not the person that the media has portrayed. Please share the TRUTH!

I would think that if you were a journalist, you would like to have some creditability behind your name. To all those incompetent journalists reporting false information, please do your homework! It wasnâ€™t very hard to find the truth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Blasphemy in the media. The truth about Rev. Wright. </p>
<p>Enlighten yourself and see the truth before passing judgment on false pretences.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOdlnzkeoyQ" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOdlnzkeoyQ</a> </p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvMbeVQj6Lw" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvMbeVQj6Lw</a> </p>
<p>If you watch these videos, you will see that Rev. Wright is a God loving Christian. He is not the person that the media has portrayed. Please share the TRUTH!</p>
<p>I would think that if you were a journalist, you would like to have some creditability behind your name. To all those incompetent journalists reporting false information, please do your homework! It wasnâ€™t very hard to find the truth.</p>
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		<title>By: Jimmy the Dhimmi</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/03/20/obama-wright-and-the-moral-obtuseness-of-conservatives/comment-page-1/#comment-394559</link>
		<dc:creator>Jimmy the Dhimmi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Mar 2008 14:14:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2008/03/20/obama-wright-and-the-moral-obtuseness-of-conservatives/#comment-394559</guid>
		<description>This still sounds like a lot of excuse making for Dr. Wright and Obama&#039;s choice to continue recieving &quot;spiritual guidance&quot; from him.

Hey, what do we expect black people to do other than than to accept conspiracy theories about AIDS, Crack and the CIA, or support Palestinian terrorsts such as Hamas, or to pledge solidarity with Momar Qaddafi after the Pan-AM 103 disaster, or to compare U.S. troops in Iraq to Al-qaeda terrorists.  After all, there was Tuskegee a century ago.  

You know that everything that Wright stands for is crap, and there are millions of black Americans who don&#039;t buy into it, so why the excuses for him?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This still sounds like a lot of excuse making for Dr. Wright and Obama&#8217;s choice to continue recieving &#8220;spiritual guidance&#8221; from him.</p>
<p>Hey, what do we expect black people to do other than than to accept conspiracy theories about AIDS, Crack and the CIA, or support Palestinian terrorsts such as Hamas, or to pledge solidarity with Momar Qaddafi after the Pan-AM 103 disaster, or to compare U.S. troops in Iraq to Al-qaeda terrorists.  After all, there was Tuskegee a century ago.  </p>
<p>You know that everything that Wright stands for is crap, and there are millions of black Americans who don&#8217;t buy into it, so why the excuses for him?</p>
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		<title>By: C Stanley</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/03/20/obama-wright-and-the-moral-obtuseness-of-conservatives/comment-page-1/#comment-394533</link>
		<dc:creator>C Stanley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Mar 2008 04:56:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2008/03/20/obama-wright-and-the-moral-obtuseness-of-conservatives/#comment-394533</guid>
		<description>Oh, I meant to ask: as a self described center rightie- what are the solutions that you would advocate?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, I meant to ask: as a self described center rightie- what are the solutions that you would advocate?</p>
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		<title>By: C Stanley</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/03/20/obama-wright-and-the-moral-obtuseness-of-conservatives/comment-page-1/#comment-394532</link>
		<dc:creator>C Stanley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Mar 2008 04:54:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/2008/03/20/obama-wright-and-the-moral-obtuseness-of-conservatives/#comment-394532</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s a good and thought provoking post, Dennis. I agree with a lot of the criticisms that you make of the conservative writers that you quoted- and I find myself wishing that I could find examples to prove that this isn&#039;t the sum total of GOP opinion. All I can say is that as a Republican voter, my view of race is different than what you see in the mouthpieces of the party- and I&#039;d ask you to consider that what you wrote here applies on both sides:
&lt;blockquote&gt;In some ways, if liberals canâ€™t see how far America has come, conservatives want to believe race and racism just donâ€™t exist, itâ€™s all just something in the distant past.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
And really, those are the pitfalls of each political philosophy in general, not just on the issue of race. This is what leads to conservatives viewing liberals as America haters, and what leads liberals to either state or imply that conservatives are heartless, uncaring monsters.

I think it&#039;s important to view it in that context; conservatism isn&#039;t actually an ideology, it&#039;s an anti-ideology which forces one to accept that there&#039;s no utopia. Sometimes, of course, people take that too far and use it as an excuse for inaction, but still, it isn&#039;t about whether one cares about a problem like racism, it&#039;s about whether or not one believes that there is an action (particularly a govt action or policy) which could really help. Conservatives tend to believe that the society has to fix problems like this from the grassroots level, not by top down governance. In fact, part of our issue with racial politics is that we very much believe that many of the govt policies have created some of the current problems or greatly exacerbated them. Obama (to his credit) mentioned this in his speech. 

&lt;blockquote&gt;But then let me ask Goldberg and others like him this: what is the conservative answer to racial issues? Do you all have an urban agenda that will help poor young blacks, who donâ€™t see a way out of their destructive lives, huh?&lt;/blockquote&gt;I don&#039;t know if I&#039;d consider myself an &#039;other who is like Goldberg&#039; but I can only attempt to give my response to that as someone who has a generally conservative outlook but isn&#039;t wedded to a completely libertarian type of hands off, ultrasmall govt philosophy.

And of course, it&#039;s an extremely difficult and complex problem so I don&#039;t pretend to have all of the answers- by a long shot.

Generally though I think most of the solutions do have to begin in the community, and I think we make the mistake of addressing these things nationally (though of course, national dialogue to share what works in one locale makes a lot of sense.) I think we&#039;ve failed to hold our municipal govts accountable for an awful lot, and change needs to start there. Zoning, enterprise zones, urban redevelopment, drug laws and enforcement that make more sense, continuing welfare/workfare reform, education, you name it. 

That&#039;s the governmental part, and then of course there&#039;s the organic change from the community itself (and like most conservatives, I appreciate and applaud that current of black responsibility that seems to be growing.)

Which leads into my next point:
&lt;blockquote&gt;The black church has long been a place where blacks could feel good about themselves in a society that didnâ€™t allow them to feel good about being black. As a kid, I remember our church singing â€œLift Every Voice and Singâ€ during Black History Month. We would have services where we would remember important events in African American History. While Trinity goes overboard in my opinion, it is part of a tradition of having people feel good about being black. That isnâ€™t the sign of a racist church. A very liberal church, yes, but not a racist one.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Don&#039;t you think though that there&#039;s a pretty bright, clear line there, between promoting positive views of black culture vs. negative views about white culture? That appears to me to be the line that Trinity and other churches like it cross.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s a good and thought provoking post, Dennis. I agree with a lot of the criticisms that you make of the conservative writers that you quoted- and I find myself wishing that I could find examples to prove that this isn&#8217;t the sum total of GOP opinion. All I can say is that as a Republican voter, my view of race is different than what you see in the mouthpieces of the party- and I&#8217;d ask you to consider that what you wrote here applies on both sides:</p>
<blockquote><p>In some ways, if liberals canâ€™t see how far America has come, conservatives want to believe race and racism just donâ€™t exist, itâ€™s all just something in the distant past.</p></blockquote>
<p>And really, those are the pitfalls of each political philosophy in general, not just on the issue of race. This is what leads to conservatives viewing liberals as America haters, and what leads liberals to either state or imply that conservatives are heartless, uncaring monsters.</p>
<p>I think it&#8217;s important to view it in that context; conservatism isn&#8217;t actually an ideology, it&#8217;s an anti-ideology which forces one to accept that there&#8217;s no utopia. Sometimes, of course, people take that too far and use it as an excuse for inaction, but still, it isn&#8217;t about whether one cares about a problem like racism, it&#8217;s about whether or not one believes that there is an action (particularly a govt action or policy) which could really help. Conservatives tend to believe that the society has to fix problems like this from the grassroots level, not by top down governance. In fact, part of our issue with racial politics is that we very much believe that many of the govt policies have created some of the current problems or greatly exacerbated them. Obama (to his credit) mentioned this in his speech. </p>
<blockquote><p>But then let me ask Goldberg and others like him this: what is the conservative answer to racial issues? Do you all have an urban agenda that will help poor young blacks, who donâ€™t see a way out of their destructive lives, huh?</p></blockquote>
<p>I don&#8217;t know if I&#8217;d consider myself an &#8216;other who is like Goldberg&#8217; but I can only attempt to give my response to that as someone who has a generally conservative outlook but isn&#8217;t wedded to a completely libertarian type of hands off, ultrasmall govt philosophy.</p>
<p>And of course, it&#8217;s an extremely difficult and complex problem so I don&#8217;t pretend to have all of the answers- by a long shot.</p>
<p>Generally though I think most of the solutions do have to begin in the community, and I think we make the mistake of addressing these things nationally (though of course, national dialogue to share what works in one locale makes a lot of sense.) I think we&#8217;ve failed to hold our municipal govts accountable for an awful lot, and change needs to start there. Zoning, enterprise zones, urban redevelopment, drug laws and enforcement that make more sense, continuing welfare/workfare reform, education, you name it. </p>
<p>That&#8217;s the governmental part, and then of course there&#8217;s the organic change from the community itself (and like most conservatives, I appreciate and applaud that current of black responsibility that seems to be growing.)</p>
<p>Which leads into my next point:</p>
<blockquote><p>The black church has long been a place where blacks could feel good about themselves in a society that didnâ€™t allow them to feel good about being black. As a kid, I remember our church singing â€œLift Every Voice and Singâ€ during Black History Month. We would have services where we would remember important events in African American History. While Trinity goes overboard in my opinion, it is part of a tradition of having people feel good about being black. That isnâ€™t the sign of a racist church. A very liberal church, yes, but not a racist one.</p></blockquote>
<p>Don&#8217;t you think though that there&#8217;s a pretty bright, clear line there, between promoting positive views of black culture vs. negative views about white culture? That appears to me to be the line that Trinity and other churches like it cross.</p>
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