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	<title>Comments on: George W. Bush made Moqtada al-Sadr</title>
	<atom:link href="http://donklephant.com/2008/03/30/george-w-bush-made-moqtada-al-sadr/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/03/30/george-w-bush-made-moqtada-al-sadr/</link>
	<description>Big Teeth. Huge Ass. Surprisingly Reasonable.</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jul 2008 06:40:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: mw</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/03/30/george-w-bush-made-moqtada-al-sadr/#comment-395211</link>
		<dc:creator>mw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Mar 2008 07:16:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=5065#comment-395211</guid>
		<description>Terence,
Plausible. You, like me, are speculating about al-Sadr's motivations. Something that, in truth,  neither of us can know. But what the hell - we are blogging here. If we were not leaping to a strongly held conclusion based on little or no facts, they would drum us out of the union. 

My view  - Moqtada al-Sadr is a garden variety, very ambitious, power hungry politician. Perhaps smarter and craftier than most. He wears a religious fundamentalist cloak to secure the support of his political base, not unlike Republican Presidential candidates will  deny evolution to secure the support of religious fundamentalist constituency. Or like Democrats will kow-tow to Unions and pro-life groups to secure the support of their constituencies. I actually consider this a hopeful characteristic. You can't negotiate with a religious fanatic. A power hungry pol will deal with anyone to meet their political aims. If al-Sadr thinks that working with the Iranians or working with the US will get him what he wants, he'll deal. Quoting from the full post: 
&lt;em&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;"A realistic "End State" scenario is an “accommodated” (or if you prefer “co-opted” or “bought-out”) Moqtada al-Sadr, or someone just like him. A popular theocrat, elected into leadership in Iraq, still railing at the “Great Satan” from his bully pulpit to maintain his popular support, but behind the scenes working with the US at the precise intersection of US interest in a stable Iraq, and his lofty personal ambition for power on a world stage. This scenario would work for Iraq and would work for us."&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;/em&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Terence,<br />
Plausible. You, like me, are speculating about al-Sadr&#8217;s motivations. Something that, in truth,  neither of us can know. But what the hell - we are blogging here. If we were not leaping to a strongly held conclusion based on little or no facts, they would drum us out of the union. </p>
<p>My view  - Moqtada al-Sadr is a garden variety, very ambitious, power hungry politician. Perhaps smarter and craftier than most. He wears a religious fundamentalist cloak to secure the support of his political base, not unlike Republican Presidential candidates will  deny evolution to secure the support of religious fundamentalist constituency. Or like Democrats will kow-tow to Unions and pro-life groups to secure the support of their constituencies. I actually consider this a hopeful characteristic. You can&#8217;t negotiate with a religious fanatic. A power hungry pol will deal with anyone to meet their political aims. If al-Sadr thinks that working with the Iranians or working with the US will get him what he wants, he&#8217;ll deal. Quoting from the full post:<br />
<em><br />
<blockquote>&#8220;A realistic &#8220;End State&#8221; scenario is an “accommodated” (or if you prefer “co-opted” or “bought-out”) Moqtada al-Sadr, or someone just like him. A popular theocrat, elected into leadership in Iraq, still railing at the “Great Satan” from his bully pulpit to maintain his popular support, but behind the scenes working with the US at the precise intersection of US interest in a stable Iraq, and his lofty personal ambition for power on a world stage. This scenario would work for Iraq and would work for us.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: TerenceC</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/03/30/george-w-bush-made-moqtada-al-sadr/#comment-395203</link>
		<dc:creator>TerenceC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Mar 2008 02:54:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=5065#comment-395203</guid>
		<description>This is a tough guy to understand actually. He was a low level cleric with out the decades of religious study normally associated with someone at his level - so he needs help to make the "proper" interpretations and understandings of the Koran - but most if not all his teachers in Iraq are either dead or they have left. Iran is the only other country with Moslem clerics at the level of study and understanding al-Sadr requires to progress in his understanding. So I believe al Sadr is close to Iran for religious reasons much more than political - although I see the government of Iran not above using he and his followers if possible. I have read in several periodicals that al-Sadr is a very serious religious student and only interprets the politics as much as the Koran (his understanding) allow.............he's not a zealot, a jihadist, or even a trouble maker - but he'll "throw-down" if his "flock" is threatened because the Koran tells him to. The Koran also tells him to make peace when his enemies ask for peace.........I wonder what happened in Basra yesterday? 

It would appear at face value that he is a guy who had responsibility thrust upon  him when his Dad and 2 brothers were murdered in 1999 and is trying to do the best he can without helping to "blow up"  the region from Baghdad to Tehran.  The USA may not like this guy, what he stands for, or how he runs his mosque.......but he's the power like it or not and we can either deal with him, martyr him, or deal with Iran when this thing falls apart completely.  So if history always repeats itself where have I seen this before?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a tough guy to understand actually. He was a low level cleric with out the decades of religious study normally associated with someone at his level - so he needs help to make the &#8220;proper&#8221; interpretations and understandings of the Koran - but most if not all his teachers in Iraq are either dead or they have left. Iran is the only other country with Moslem clerics at the level of study and understanding al-Sadr requires to progress in his understanding. So I believe al Sadr is close to Iran for religious reasons much more than political - although I see the government of Iran not above using he and his followers if possible. I have read in several periodicals that al-Sadr is a very serious religious student and only interprets the politics as much as the Koran (his understanding) allow&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.he&#8217;s not a zealot, a jihadist, or even a trouble maker - but he&#8217;ll &#8220;throw-down&#8221; if his &#8220;flock&#8221; is threatened because the Koran tells him to. The Koran also tells him to make peace when his enemies ask for peace&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;I wonder what happened in Basra yesterday? </p>
<p>It would appear at face value that he is a guy who had responsibility thrust upon  him when his Dad and 2 brothers were murdered in 1999 and is trying to do the best he can without helping to &#8220;blow up&#8221;  the region from Baghdad to Tehran.  The USA may not like this guy, what he stands for, or how he runs his mosque&#8230;&#8230;.but he&#8217;s the power like it or not and we can either deal with him, martyr him, or deal with Iran when this thing falls apart completely.  So if history always repeats itself where have I seen this before?</p>
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		<title>By: mw</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/03/30/george-w-bush-made-moqtada-al-sadr/#comment-395198</link>
		<dc:creator>mw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Mar 2008 01:23:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=5065#comment-395198</guid>
		<description>Kritter,
Agree. On both counts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kritter,<br />
Agree. On both counts.</p>
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		<title>By: kritter</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/03/30/george-w-bush-made-moqtada-al-sadr/#comment-395195</link>
		<dc:creator>kritter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Mar 2008 00:09:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=5065#comment-395195</guid>
		<description>Back in the day, I had hoped we'd move to squash al-sadr before his influence got too strong. But even so, I am compelled to wonder whether, if al-sadr had been nipped in the bud, someone else would have bloomed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Back in the day, I had hoped we&#8217;d move to squash al-sadr before his influence got too strong. But even so, I am compelled to wonder whether, if al-sadr had been nipped in the bud, someone else would have bloomed.</p>
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		<title>By: mw</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/03/30/george-w-bush-made-moqtada-al-sadr/#comment-395182</link>
		<dc:creator>mw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Mar 2008 18:09:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=5065#comment-395182</guid>
		<description>Terence,
I agree with your comment, but would put it a little differently. Not that al-Sadr made his point, but al-Maliki failed to make his.  This was an attempt by Maliki to crush his primary political opposition militarily. He failed. In this particular game of political chess, al-Sadr is making all the smart moves, while Maliki and the Bush administration apparently think they are playing checkers. al-Sadr has much greater ambition that controlling what happens in the South. He publicly opposed partition, wants a single strong Iraq, and intends to lead it. If he is not killed, he eventually will.  He is ambitious and smart and ruthless and popular and he'll get there by means of the Democratic processes we mandated for Iraq.  

All Bush can hope for now, is for it not to happen on his watch, so the Democrats can be blamed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Terence,<br />
I agree with your comment, but would put it a little differently. Not that al-Sadr made his point, but al-Maliki failed to make his.  This was an attempt by Maliki to crush his primary political opposition militarily. He failed. In this particular game of political chess, al-Sadr is making all the smart moves, while Maliki and the Bush administration apparently think they are playing checkers. al-Sadr has much greater ambition that controlling what happens in the South. He publicly opposed partition, wants a single strong Iraq, and intends to lead it. If he is not killed, he eventually will.  He is ambitious and smart and ruthless and popular and he&#8217;ll get there by means of the Democratic processes we mandated for Iraq.  </p>
<p>All Bush can hope for now, is for it not to happen on his watch, so the Democrats can be blamed.</p>
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		<title>By: TerenceC</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/03/30/george-w-bush-made-moqtada-al-sadr/#comment-395179</link>
		<dc:creator>TerenceC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Mar 2008 17:33:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=5065#comment-395179</guid>
		<description>al-Sadr made his point - nothing will happen from Baghdad and south without his personal approval. The tribe always wins in middle-eastern politics........even when it looks like they didn't.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>al-Sadr made his point - nothing will happen from Baghdad and south without his personal approval. The tribe always wins in middle-eastern politics&#8230;&#8230;..even when it looks like they didn&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: mw</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/03/30/george-w-bush-made-moqtada-al-sadr/#comment-395174</link>
		<dc:creator>mw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Mar 2008 15:49:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=5065#comment-395174</guid>
		<description>Just for clarification on "Oscar". Oscar Yeager is the name of a fictional character in a novel by the same white supremacist who wrote "The Turner Diaries' - the book that served as inspiration to Timthy McVeigh's Oklahoma City bombing. In the book Oscar Yeagar embarks on a "heroic" assassination campaign against interracial couples, specifically to stir up a race war, which is a goal of white supremacists. 

The link on his name is to the Institute of Historical Review run by Mark Weber, a group that promotes Holocaust denial literature and authors. I'd encourage you not to click on that link, as that is part of the purpose of his comment. If you would like to read more about IHR or Weber, I'd suggest links &lt;a href="http://www.adl.org/Holocaust/weber.asp" rel="nofollow"&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; or &lt;a href="http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/d/drobnicki-john/response-to-weber.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;

Oscar's comment has nothing to do with my post, but is a first volley in a conventional trolling effort by an anonymous anti-semitic racist. If there is any rational intent behind the comment, it is probably an attempt to stimulate a debate about the "Jews controlling America."  Well we are not going to do that in this thread. I considered (for the first time in my experience at Donklephant) just deleting that comment, which I have authority do for comments in threads to my posts, but decided to leave it there, in order to explain what Oscar is all about. But the attempted threadjack ends here, I'll delete without comment anything else along these lines. 

Buh-bye  Oscar. Take it elsewhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just for clarification on &#8220;Oscar&#8221;. Oscar Yeager is the name of a fictional character in a novel by the same white supremacist who wrote &#8220;The Turner Diaries&#8217; - the book that served as inspiration to Timthy McVeigh&#8217;s Oklahoma City bombing. In the book Oscar Yeagar embarks on a &#8220;heroic&#8221; assassination campaign against interracial couples, specifically to stir up a race war, which is a goal of white supremacists. </p>
<p>The link on his name is to the Institute of Historical Review run by Mark Weber, a group that promotes Holocaust denial literature and authors. I&#8217;d encourage you not to click on that link, as that is part of the purpose of his comment. If you would like to read more about IHR or Weber, I&#8217;d suggest links <a href="http://www.adl.org/Holocaust/weber.asp" rel="nofollow">here</a> or <a href="http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/d/drobnicki-john/response-to-weber.html" rel="nofollow">here</a></p>
<p>Oscar&#8217;s comment has nothing to do with my post, but is a first volley in a conventional trolling effort by an anonymous anti-semitic racist. If there is any rational intent behind the comment, it is probably an attempt to stimulate a debate about the &#8220;Jews controlling America.&#8221;  Well we are not going to do that in this thread. I considered (for the first time in my experience at Donklephant) just deleting that comment, which I have authority do for comments in threads to my posts, but decided to leave it there, in order to explain what Oscar is all about. But the attempted threadjack ends here, I&#8217;ll delete without comment anything else along these lines. </p>
<p>Buh-bye  Oscar. Take it elsewhere.</p>
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		<title>By: TerenceC</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/03/30/george-w-bush-made-moqtada-al-sadr/#comment-395173</link>
		<dc:creator>TerenceC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Mar 2008 14:15:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=5065#comment-395173</guid>
		<description>Oscar 

MW Nice post. Oscar are you calling MW a Jew for writing this......as if that's derogatory or something or did I mis-read that? Please don't confuse Judaism with Israel - they are very different. Judaism doesn't deserve your derision - Israel may, but I am in no position to tell you what to think about Israel - I have my own views there. 

We are in the middle of a civil war and have been since the day Saddam's statue was pulled down. All the facts indicate that this war of choice was engineered for no other reason than material and financial gain. The military is broken, our nation currently sits on debt in excess of 9 $Trilion. The victims are many...the Iraqi people, the American people, the US Army and Marine Corps, so many others. The only people to have been charged and convicted of crimes (and there are many) are a couple of low level grunts. We have a Federal election coming up and  2 of 3 leaders actually agreed with the execution of this crime. And the last thing anyone in power wants is for the nation to stay with this story, keep asking questions, and keep hammering.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oscar </p>
<p>MW Nice post. Oscar are you calling MW a Jew for writing this&#8230;&#8230;as if that&#8217;s derogatory or something or did I mis-read that? Please don&#8217;t confuse Judaism with Israel - they are very different. Judaism doesn&#8217;t deserve your derision - Israel may, but I am in no position to tell you what to think about Israel - I have my own views there. </p>
<p>We are in the middle of a civil war and have been since the day Saddam&#8217;s statue was pulled down. All the facts indicate that this war of choice was engineered for no other reason than material and financial gain. The military is broken, our nation currently sits on debt in excess of 9 $Trilion. The victims are many&#8230;the Iraqi people, the American people, the US Army and Marine Corps, so many others. The only people to have been charged and convicted of crimes (and there are many) are a couple of low level grunts. We have a Federal election coming up and  2 of 3 leaders actually agreed with the execution of this crime. And the last thing anyone in power wants is for the nation to stay with this story, keep asking questions, and keep hammering.</p>
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		<title>By: Oscar Yeager</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/03/30/george-w-bush-made-moqtada-al-sadr/#comment-395166</link>
		<dc:creator>Oscar Yeager</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Mar 2008 08:07:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=5065#comment-395166</guid>
		<description>Who's the jew that writes this stuff?  Saddamite?  Do tell, why did we go into Iraq?  Bush, Cheney and the cabal that surrounds them should be hung for war crimes.  God bless men who hold "extremist" views and recognize jewish democracy for what it really is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Who&#8217;s the jew that writes this stuff?  Saddamite?  Do tell, why did we go into Iraq?  Bush, Cheney and the cabal that surrounds them should be hung for war crimes.  God bless men who hold &#8220;extremist&#8221; views and recognize jewish democracy for what it really is.</p>
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