About Last Night…
By Justin Gardner | Related entries in 2008 Election, Barack, Debates, Democrats, Hillary, Media, PennsylvaniaMedia critic Tom Shales lays it out…
For the first 52 minutes of the two-hour, commercial-crammed show, Gibson and Stephanopoulos dwelled entirely on specious and gossipy trivia that already has been hashed and rehashed, in the hope of getting the candidates to claw at one another over disputes that are no longer news. Some were barely news to begin with. [...]Gibson sat there peering down at the candidates over glasses perched on the end of his nose, looking prosecutorial and at times portraying himself as a spokesman for the working class. Blunderingly he addressed an early question, about whether each would be willing to serve as the other’s running mate, “to both of you,” which is simple ineptitude or bad manners. It was his job to indicate which candidate should answer first. When, understandably, both waited politely for the other to talk, Gibson said snidely, “Don’t all speak at once.” [...]
The boyish Stephanopoulos, who has done wonders with the network’s Sunday morning hour, “This Week” (as, indeed, has Gibson with the nightly “World News”), looked like an overly ambitious intern helping out at a subcommittee hearing, digging through notes for something smart-alecky and slimy. He came up with such tired tripe as a charge that Obama once associated with a nutty bomb-throwing anarchist. That was “40 years ago, when I was 8 years old,” Obama said with exasperation.
I said it before, but it bears repeating: Worst. Debate. Ever.
This entry was posted on Thursday, April 17th, 2008 and is filed under 2008 Election, Barack, Debates, Democrats, Hillary, Media, Pennsylvania. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.
April 17th, 2008 at 1:08 pm
I think David Brooks lays it out much better:
No Whining About the Media
This really nets it out. Obama was terrible in the debate. So, all his supporters can do is whine about media. The Superdelegates learned something about Obama’s performance under fire. It was good to learn now.
April 17th, 2008 at 1:19 pm
It’s time to give Newt Gingrinch’s idea another look. No, really. Stop laughing. I’m talking about his Nine Nineties for Nine proposal. The nominees ought to have ninety minute conversations about the issues. No tricks. No gimmicks. No moderators. And no time limits. Just the two of them, on stage, talking to each other about the issues that matter to Americans.
Since political “journalists” have decided gotcha games and amateur hour psychoanalysis are appropriate ways of evaluating the would be leader of the free world, it’s time to cut them out of the process. The American public may or may not be any wiser than the journalists who claim to speak for them, but we deserve the chance to be treated like adults.
April 17th, 2008 at 1:28 pm
How can you even type with the white hood on your head, mw?
God, I’m really starting to wish I had gotten an opportunity to see this thing. I was busy collecting my dividend checks to be taxed latter at more fair rate.
April 17th, 2008 at 1:53 pm
I do agree with you, mw. Obama was terrible last night and that can’t be blamed on the moderators. I’m just not sure his terrible performance means anything. Does it mean he’s unelectable? Well, Bush did poorly in many of his debates too, and he was elected. Twice.
Maybe you could argue he can’t cope with a pressure cooker environment. You may be right. But last I checked, the ability to answer smarmy journalists in 30 seconds or less has very little bearing on the actual job of President. I’m more worried about his ability to pick good advisers, ability to intelligently deal with conflicting advice, and ability to mediate internecine conflicts (and crack the whip where necessary) before they lead to bureaucratic meltdown. IMO those are the high level areas where Bush has failed.
April 17th, 2008 at 1:55 pm
You didn’t miss anything – it was garbage. I agree with CRW. In addition, it should be that debates are commercial free as part of the public service TV and Radio stations should be required to provide. The moderators were average at best, and the participants were tired and and lacked passion – it was boring and did a dis-service to the voters. I can’t wait for Saturday Night Live to cover this on the Saturday it should be a good one.
April 17th, 2008 at 2:00 pm
I watched the first 20 minutes, got fed up, played some Super Smash Brothers for an hour and a half and then watched South Park at 10pm.
Apparently I didn’t miss anything.
Oh, and the footage of the debate on Fox News was defending Gibson and Stephanopolous this morning. I thought that was amusing.
April 17th, 2008 at 2:04 pm
Ah, Once again, Terence to the rescue – Always so so eager to bring the iron fist of government to bear and tell the media what they are “REQUIRED” to do or say or not say. Yes that is exactly the kind of government we should all seek, one that dictates to the free press and media.
I do agree about SNL Saturday though. I am expecting a reverse of the “can we get you another pillow” skit.
April 17th, 2008 at 2:14 pm
Yeah, I don’t think it’s wise to try to force the networks to carry the debates commercial free. That’ll just give ‘em more incentive to stop broadcasting and go cable only. I just think it would be neat if the candidates voluntarily agreed to Newt’s idea. They could broadcast the thing online if no network will agree to carry it.
April 17th, 2008 at 2:35 pm
I don’t think the FCC should be involved at all – but television and radio used to be required to provide public service for the free use of the “peoples” air waves where they broadcast. Regan removed the fairness doctrine and most of the public service requirements contained there in. It wasn’t perfect but it did help strike a balance when it came to media responsibility and public discourse in the political process – much more so than now. We have “opinion” and commentary shows masking as news, and people are under informed. I don’t advocate that any one is being told what to say – only being told that to keep their broadcast license they need to proved some level of public service, and they currently don’t provide anything. Last night was a joke!
April 17th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
crw,
Re: your earlier comment
I have no idea whether his performance will have any effect on the polls or perception of his electability, and said as much in another thread. Once we get to the general, I think either C or O will mop the floor with McCain in the debates.
What did happen unequivocally last night, was a whole set of cracks in the Obama facade were exposed to the superdelegates about how he performs under the gun. by itself – you are right – not meaningful. If Clinton takes PA, IN, a few more and if by the end of the primary season more people have checked off Clintons name than check Obama? They got a lot to think about.
April 17th, 2008 at 2:56 pm
The world according to Terence:
… be told what to say.
April 17th, 2008 at 3:11 pm
mw:
Agreed. If the upcoming elections show Obama is ‘backing in’ – i.e. losing appeal, the superdelegates would be wise to take that information into account. We’ll just have to wait and see how things play out.
FWIW, I agree that he has lost much of his shine. He’s looking more like a typical prevaricating politician lately – since at least OH/TX I’d say. He’s shown he can counterpunch well. Unfortunately, he’s also shown a tendency to go for the easy dodge first, which inevitably just gets him into hotter water.. And I may think the media coverage of politics is crap, but it is what it is, and Obama needs to deal with it better out the gate.
April 17th, 2008 at 3:51 pm
Having a broadcast license and a requirement to provide some level of public service such as allowing equal time – free of charge – for national political races is not infringing on freedom of speech. It’s forcing media companies to achieve some level of responsibility to the public discourse in exchange for being allowed to broadcast and earn revenue via add sales. You are simply wrong if you believe that infringes on freedom of speech – if anything it enhances it.
April 17th, 2008 at 3:56 pm
Actually it was the fact that he didn’t dodge that probably hurt him more, better would have been for him to state, i’ve already covered these issues ad nauseum charlie, and the public knows my response to all of these question, i’d instead i’m going to talk about the issues that matter to people like the economy and iraq. It was the fact that he dealt with those issues and allowed himself to get dragged down to that level that hurt him. Clinton is a pro at fighting in the muck, Obama much less so, he tends to do better on the high ground, by agreeing to play in Hillary’s element he hurt himself, he should have called the moderators out on dealing with these silly issues and stating that he was tired of rehashing them.
April 17th, 2008 at 4:12 pm
Avinash,
Yes, the patrician “That question is beneath me. Please refer to my previous statements. Dismissed. Next question please.” always plays very well with the voters and the press. I am surprised he did not use it more.
April 17th, 2008 at 4:19 pm
mw, If he had said, I think voters are more concerned about gas nearing 4 dollars a gallon and price of food rising then they are about whether my former reverend loves this country, it wouldn’t have sounded dismissive it would have sounded like, i’m tired of this silly poltics and the public is more interested in how we are going to help this country
April 17th, 2008 at 4:34 pm
It was Charlie Gibson’s audition for Fox News. He used their typical BS about how every time taxes are cut revenues increase and that 100,000,000 Americans are affected by capital gains taxes. For them to get an A for that performance is pathetic and what I’d expect from Brooks.
April 17th, 2008 at 4:34 pm
The interesting about you Terence, is that you do no shy away from the accurate words – german accent/ You vill be “required” … You vill be “forced” … end german accent/ and then have the unbelievable chutzpah to say the “No the sky is really green and when I “force” you or “require” you to say what I think you should say, it “enhances” your free speech.”
George Orwell, Terence has something to teach you:
April 17th, 2008 at 7:22 pm
237 separate media companies/markets in the US are reduced to 5 corporate owned markets in 25 years. Media companies have no motivation to allow any other points of view into the political process except by those who can afford to pay big money. This is a direct attack on freedom of speech because the government has allowed a lack of competition as well as unhealthy corporate mergers. Requiring media companies to provide a public service allowing for free access into the political discourse is very respectful of free speech, no one is being told what to say or how to say it. Media access and the removal of barriers is not restricting free speech – we own the air waves the media companies don’t. The biggest threat to free speech comes from apathetic voters who think nothing should be done or that the government always has their best interests in mind.
April 17th, 2008 at 11:04 pm
Funny, I had not noticed that lack of competition and complete absence of differing points of view.
When the fairness doctrine you are so fond of was passed, there were only three television networks and limiited analog bandwidth. Last time I looked, I had no trouble finding a diversity of opinion among 500-600 digital TV channels available on a choice of broadcast, cable, or satellite, with competing 24 news channels, including MSNBC (which specializes in promoting the Obama candidacy 7×24), hundreds of broadcast radio stations, thousands of satellite radio channels, 10 of thousands of internet radio stations, millions of podcasts, and tens of millions of blogs. No that is obviously much too limited and restricted a range of media choices.
I guess Terence is afraid that there might be some “apathetic”, lazy American who is too stupid to change a channel or find media for themselves, it is up to Terence to tell radio and TV stations what they must broadcast to be fair. Once again, we can only be enormously grateful for the liberal elites who know better than we do what we should listen to and watch.
Here is the problem you’ve got Terence. With so many choices, nobody is going to stay on Fox or MSNBC or CNN or ABC to watch whatever mandated fairness stuff you think in your progressive wisdom that they should watch. When I get tired of Olbermann shilling for Obama, I change the channel. If you don’t like Fox (which I don’t) you don’t have to watch it (which I don’t). It’s quite easy.
But I have solution for you Terence. The problem is not the media, the real problem are those darn viewers and listeners who will change the channel and not spend one second listening to the stuff you think they have to hear. There is a technology solution that I developed that I think you’ll like I wrote about it HERE.
April 18th, 2008 at 5:14 am
You are simply wrong. All those choices….hundreds of radio and TV stations and newspapers….. who owns them exactly? You keep trying to reframe my initial contention and go back to a weekly supported point that I advocate controlling who and what people listen to – that’s just ignorance and you’re wrong. What I have advocated is access to the markets….which are dominated by large corporations and prohibit anyone from “buying into” a market. Current media ownership laws perpetuate that problem. Wednesday night was a good example of it. I couldn’t care less what people listen to so stop mis-stating my position – but an Oligarchy controlling media ownership is very dangerous and requiring some level of public service when it comes to the political process isn’t an attack on free speech, it’s responsible public discourse.
Below are the largest media companies and their influence on the largest markets regarding radio, TV, newspapers and magazines:
Clear Channel Communications
Clear Channel Communications owns Outdoor Advertising, Katz Media Group, Premiere Radio Network, New Music Network, and SFX Sports Group.
Clear Channel owns and operates 39 television stations in the United States with more than one television station in Eugene, OR, Harrisburg, PA, Jacksonville, FL, Little Rock, AR, Memphis, TN, Mobile, AL, Monterey, CA, San Antonio, TX, Tulsa, OK, Wichita, KS.
Clear Channel leads in radio broadcast station ownership with 1,207 stations reaching 201 out of 287 markets in the United States.
Cox Communications
Cox Communications is best known for its cable, internet services, and telephony services. Cox also owns Val-Pak, 74 radio stations, 9 Television stations, and 43 newspapers in the United States.
Cumulus Media Inc.
At present, Cumulus Media Inc. is only invested in radio stations, reaching nearly 70 of 287 possible markets on 250 stations in the United States.
Disney
Disney is an example of media expansion. Founded first as movie production and theme park company, Disney now publishes books, magazines, and financial and medical services information. Disney owns ABC network with 10 television stations and 66 radio stations in the United States.
Partnering with Hearst Corporation and General Electric (GE,) Disney invests in 12 cable stations, 13 broadcast channels outside the USA, and Disney is part owner of German, French, Spanish, Scandinavian, and Japanese television stations.
Disney owns film companies; Buena Vista, Touchstone, Walt Disney, Hollywood Pictures, Caravan Pictures, Miramax Films.
Disney is a financial partner with Sid R. Bass in crude petroleum and natural gas production.
Along with its own internet portal, Disney owns ABC.com, Oscar.com, Mr. Showbiz, all Disney related sites, Family.com, ESPN.com, NBA.com, NASCAR.com, and toysmart.com.
Interactive games and music for Disney come through Buena Vista Music Group, Hollywood Records, Lyric Street Records, Mammoth Records, and Walt Disney Records.
Disney also owns Anaheim Sports Inc. and the Mighty Ducks of Anaheim; 15 resorts and theme parks, and is a partial investor with TiVo.
Emmis Communications Group
Emmis Communications Group currently owns and operates 23 radio stations in the United States and owns monthly magazines including the Atlanta, and Texas Monthly publications.
Entercom Communications
Entercom Communications currently own and operate 91 radio stations in the United States.
Gannett
Gannett owns USA Today, USA Weekend, USA Today Sports Weekly, and the USA Today Information Network.
Gannett owns 100 daily newspapers in the USA; the Army Times, Navy Times, Navy Times Marine Corps, Air Force Times, Federal Times, Defense Times, and Military Market.
Gannett also owns:
o 16 newspapers in the United Kingdom
o 16 television stations in the USA
o Partial interests in the Cincinnati Reds, Classified Ventures Com LLC, (with competitors Knight Ridder, the New York Times Company, Times Mirror, Washington Post Co., and Tribune Co.)
o Quarter share in BrassRing Inc. (Human Resources services and software)
o Gannett partners with General Electric (GE) on Space.com and with Kight Ridder and Tribune Media on CareerBuilder.com
GE — General Electric
General Electric holds 80 pecent share of NBC Universal with 14 televsion centers (9 of which are in the top 10 market share) and 14 Spanish language television stations, (8 of which are in the top 10 market share)
o In Broadcast:
GE owns CNBC, MSNBC, Bravo, Mun2TV, Sci-Fi channel, Trio, and USA network.
o In Film:
Universal Pictures
o In Retail:
Universal Studios — parks and resorts
o In Partnership:
Paxson Communications (1/3 interest)
o In Commerce:
GE builds aircraft engines, finances commercial investments, manufactures consumer products and industrial systems, as well as sells insurance, medical systems, plastics, power supplies, and transportation monitoring systems.
News Corp.
News Corp. owns FOX Broadcasting Company, 34 television stations (8 cover the USA’s most populous cities) 29 alternative broadcast channels, mostly under the name of “FOX Sports.”
o In Film:
20th Century FOX Stuidos, FOX Searchlight Pictures, FOX Television Studios
o In Print:
One newspaper in the USA, 5 newspapers in the United Kingdom, 20 newspapers in Australia, all of HarperCollins Publishing companies (23 in all) HarperCollins Children’s Book Group (6 in all)
o In Sports:
Los Angeles Dodgers, National Rugby League, (partial owners) of New York Rangers and New York Knicks, Los Angeles Kings and Los Angeles Lakers
o In Music and Media:
News America New Media, Broadsystem, Festival Records, Mushroom Records, NDS, News Interactive, News Outdoor, Nursery World, Staples Center
Time Warner Inc.
Time Warner Inc. owns all Time Life Book companies (27 in all)
o On Cable:
HBO, CNN (8 CNN networks), Court TV, Time Warner Cable services, Road Runner interactive services, New York 1, Kablevision (Hungary)
o On Film and Television:
Warner Bros. (studios, film production and distrbution,) WB Television Network, Hanna Barbera Cartoons, Telepictures Production, Witt – Thomas Productions, Castle Rock Entertainment, Warner Home Video, Warner Bros pay TV, Warner Bros Theaters, TBS Superstation, Turner Network Television, Turner South, Cartoon Network (3 channels), Turner Classic Movies, TNT, New Line Cinema, Fine Line Features, Turner Original Productions
o In Print:
Time Magazine (8 publications,) Fortune, Life, Sports Illustrated (3 magazines,) People (4 publications,) Entertainment Weekly (2 publications,) and 58 additional monthly or weekly publications.
o In Music:
Time Warner Music, Atlantic Records, Rhino, Elektra, and 49 other music production companies.
o In Partnership:
Joint ventures with Sony on Columbia House marketing, Music Sound Exchange, Viva, Channel V, Heartland Music,
o Online:
CompuServe Interactive, AOL and subsidiaries, The Knot Inc, MapQuest.com, Spinner.com, Winamp, DrKoop.com, Legend.
o In Sports:
Atlanta Braves
o In Retail:
MovieFone, iAmaze, (partial) Amazon.com, Quack.com
Viacom
Viacom owns:
o CBS — and 16 television stations (6 of which in top 10 marketshare)
o UPN 18 television stations,
o 5 additional television stations
o On Cable: MTV, Nickelodeon, BET, Nick at Night, TV Land, VH1, Spike TV, Comedy Central, CMT, Showtime, The Movie Channel, Flix, Sundance Channel Owns King World Productions
o On Radio: Infinity Broadcasting, with 176 radio stations and Westwood One
o On Film: Paramount Pictures
o In Print: Simon & Schuster (8 publishing companies)
o In Retail: Owns Blockbuster video, Paramount Parks, Famous Players Theater, United Cinemas International, Famous Music
April 18th, 2008 at 8:44 am
No. It’s what you have been saying. Your quotes from this thread:
There is no evidence that there is any limitation on access to people hearing or saying whatever they want to hear or say with the explosion of choices everyone has today. None. Far more dangerous is government dictating what most be shown – even. perhaps especially if dressed up in undefined but nice sounding words like”public service”. One can only imagine what that official “public service”
informationpropaganda would sound like if Terence got to decide the content.April 18th, 2008 at 9:08 am
Beg to disagree with the notion the debate was garbage or boring. Certainly, liberals, especially Obama’s followers had no reason to celebrate.
Without a doubt, it wasn’t Barack brightest moment, because it brought him down a few notches and dissipated all that aura that “he is above politics.”
It was actually quite entertaining to hear Barack stumble for responses.
The people he surrounds himself with and the inability to give a cogent explanation to all the controversies is giving shape to the “mystery man.”
Two of the most entertaining moments, imo, were his shocked expression at Clinton’s remarks about the ties with terrorist Ayers. His rebuttal that at the time Ayers committed his crimes Barack was 8 yrs old was risible. No one faulted him for that.
What gives people pause is that despite this guy’s past and his present stance that he wished he had inflicted more harm with his bombings, Obama remains friendly with him!!
Clinton didn’t miss the opportunity to rub in that Ayer’s actions had costed some people their lives. Obama hit her back with, “President Clinton pardoned two terrorists.”
In addition, Barack, made a foolish comparison between the terrorist Ayers and Sen. Coburn in a futile attempt to justify the friendly ties.
DOS, you would have enjoyed it, but don’t take my word for it. There has to be a video somewhere.Beg to disagree with the notion the debate was garbage or boring. Certainly, liberals, especially Obama’s followers had no reason to celebrate.
Without a doubt, it wasn’t Barack brightest moment, because it brought him down a few notches and dissipated all that aura that “he is above politics.”
It was actually quite entertaining to hear Barack stumble for responses.
The people he surrounds himself with and the inability to give a cogent explanation to all the controversies is giving shape to the “mystery man.”
Two of the most entertaining moments, imo, were his shocked expression at Clinton’s remarks about the ties with terrorist Ayers. His rebuttal that at the time Ayers committed his crimes Barack was 8 yrs old was risible. No one faulted him for that.
What gives people pause is that despite this guy’s past and his present stance that he wished he had inflicted more harm with his bombings, Obama remains friendly with him!!
Clinton didn’t miss the opportunity to rub in that Ayer’s actions had costed some people their lives. Obama hit her back with, “President Clinton pardoned two terrorists.”
In addition, Barack, made a foolish comparison between the terrorist Ayers and Sen. Coburn in a futile attempt to justify the friendly ties.
DOS, you would have enjoyed it, but don’t take my word for it. Check out the video Justin posted.
April 18th, 2008 at 9:12 am
Sorry for the double post inside the post.