Comments on: Voter Suppression and the Major Parties http://donklephant.com/2008/04/23/voter-suppression-and-the-major-parties/ Big Teeth. Huge Ass. Surprisingly Reasonable. Sun, 23 Nov 2008 11:41:52 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: Elisabetta http://donklephant.com/2008/04/23/voter-suppression-and-the-major-parties/#comment-396986 Elisabetta Thu, 24 Apr 2008 18:22:11 +0000 http://donklephant.com/?p=5319#comment-396986 Correction: (it’s) it continues to be a great idea. Correction: (it’s) it continues to be a great idea.

]]> By: Elisabetta http://donklephant.com/2008/04/23/voter-suppression-and-the-major-parties/#comment-396985 Elisabetta Thu, 24 Apr 2008 18:19:31 +0000 http://donklephant.com/?p=5319#comment-396985 The law requires people to be citizens before they can vote. It was a good idea before I became one and it's continues to be a great idea. No type of ID is so costly or so inconvenient to prevent the poor, disabled and elderly to be able to cast their vote. That's the disingenous argument of people bent on securing the vote of illegals, felons and dead people. One sure way to prove people who vote do it so legally is by proof of residence and ID. Massachusetts requires both. Once a year we get a census form that we have to inspect, correct (if necessary) and send back in. Without it, you are removed from voters' list. You bring your ID on voting day. Nothing complicated about it. The law requires people to be citizens before they can vote. It was a good idea before I became one and it’s continues to be a great idea.
No type of ID is so costly or so inconvenient to prevent the poor, disabled and elderly to be able to cast their vote.
That’s the disingenous argument of people bent on securing the vote of illegals, felons and dead people.

One sure way to prove people who vote do it so legally is by proof of residence and ID.
Massachusetts requires both. Once a year we get a census form that we have to inspect, correct (if necessary) and send back in. Without it, you are removed from voters’ list.
You bring your ID on voting day. Nothing complicated about it.

]]> By: Rich http://donklephant.com/2008/04/23/voter-suppression-and-the-major-parties/#comment-396981 Rich Thu, 24 Apr 2008 16:49:38 +0000 http://donklephant.com/?p=5319#comment-396981 I find the post interesting, Marcia. Most interesting is how you appear to me to be talking in circles. You note your distrust of electronic voting machines (a agree there should be a paper trail, though). Meanwhile, you are advocating an electronic means of voter registration and/or voter elegibility verification (similar to a credit card swipe). You don't think there could be problems with the voter verification "card swipe" device??? Electronic devices should be either all good or all bad. Make up your mind... How would the voters get their electronic voter registration card to swipe? I'd guess they have to register, wouldn't they?? They would also have to present the vaild card at the poll in order to vote, right?? Sounds kinda' like requiring a valid form of identification in order to vote....something you seem to think is a bad idea according to your post...again - make up your mind!! I find the post interesting, Marcia.

Most interesting is how you appear to me to be talking in circles.

You note your distrust of electronic voting machines (a agree there should be a paper trail, though). Meanwhile, you are advocating an electronic means of voter registration and/or voter elegibility verification (similar to a credit card swipe). You don’t think there could be problems with the voter verification “card swipe” device??? Electronic devices should be either all good or all bad. Make up your mind…

How would the voters get their electronic voter registration card to swipe? I’d guess they have to register, wouldn’t they?? They would also have to present the vaild card at the poll in order to vote, right??

Sounds kinda’ like requiring a valid form of identification in order to vote….something you seem to think is a bad idea according to your post…again - make up your mind!!

]]> By: Rob http://donklephant.com/2008/04/23/voter-suppression-and-the-major-parties/#comment-396978 Rob Thu, 24 Apr 2008 16:34:01 +0000 http://donklephant.com/?p=5319#comment-396978 Read Deliberative Democracy. http://www.amazon.com/Deliberative-Democracy-Essays-Reason-Politics/dp/0262522411 Read Deliberative Democracy.

http://www.amazon.com/Deliberative-Democracy-Essays-Reason-Politics/dp/0262522411

]]> By: kranky kritter http://donklephant.com/2008/04/23/voter-suppression-and-the-major-parties/#comment-396886 kranky kritter Wed, 23 Apr 2008 19:58:10 +0000 http://donklephant.com/?p=5319#comment-396886 How easy ought it to be to vote? That's the question. While it's worthwhile to encourage folks to vote, and ideally everyone ought to vote as a civic duty, there has to be some balance between that ideal and the equally worthwhile goal of preventing fraud. And I mean both fraud by overt campaign chicanery and fraud by allowing folls to vote who are not entitled to vote, such as illegal undocumented immigrants.[And I'm not anti-immigrant, I just think it's reasonable that only official US citizens be allowed to vote. Allowing them to vote without getting legal status would be another perverse incentive making it easier for undocumented illegals to stay that way.] So I don't mind that there are some reasonable thresholds and deadlines. If you don't take voting seriously and don't bother to be informed as to the local civic mechanics, it's fair to say that's at least in part <i>your own bad.</i> I think it's pretty clear why some folks favor same-day registration. Like you said, turnout. But I don't think the highest possible turnout is necessarily the greatest good. If people who don't care and aren't informed don't get to vote, that's not exactly the end of the world in my opinion. Of course, it is INDEED regrettable that some folks who want to be involved and want to register their choice find themselves closed out when circumstances conspire against them. Not saying that's a GOOD thing per se. And it would be nice to do some things to mitigate this, and to standardize procedures. But in general, I don't see why it ought to be so easy that folks don't even have to lift a finger. Within 4 years, folks will probably be demanding that they be able to vote using their cell phones, and that they have a week or a month to do so. And that the state is negligent if people don't get repeated reminders. That's a bit of a joke, but I think it illustrates nicely that there IS something to be said for putting some honus upon citizens themselves. How easy ought it to be to vote? That’s the question. While it’s worthwhile to encourage folks to vote, and ideally everyone ought to vote as a civic duty, there has to be some balance between that ideal and the equally worthwhile goal of preventing fraud. And I mean both fraud by overt campaign chicanery and fraud by allowing folls to vote who are not entitled to vote, such as illegal undocumented immigrants.[And I'm not anti-immigrant, I just think it's reasonable that only official US citizens be allowed to vote. Allowing them to vote without getting legal status would be another perverse incentive making it easier for undocumented illegals to stay that way.]

So I don’t mind that there are some reasonable thresholds and deadlines. If you don’t take voting seriously and don’t bother to be informed as to the local civic mechanics, it’s fair to say that’s at least in part your own bad.

I think it’s pretty clear why some folks favor same-day registration. Like you said, turnout. But I don’t think the highest possible turnout is necessarily the greatest good. If people who don’t care and aren’t informed don’t get to vote, that’s not exactly the end of the world in my opinion.

Of course, it is INDEED regrettable that some folks who want to be involved and want to register their choice find themselves closed out when circumstances conspire against them. Not saying that’s a GOOD thing per se. And it would be nice to do some things to mitigate this, and to standardize procedures. But in general, I don’t see why it ought to be so easy that folks don’t even have to lift a finger.

Within 4 years, folks will probably be demanding that they be able to vote using their cell phones, and that they have a week or a month to do so. And that the state is negligent if people don’t get repeated reminders. That’s a bit of a joke, but I think it illustrates nicely that there IS something to be said for putting some honus upon citizens themselves.

]]>