StopRussianAggression.com

Name the country that intentionally targets civilian populations AND UN peace keepers as an integral hallmark of its war planning strategy. THESE ARE WAR CRIMES.

Who wrote Georgia’s plan for aggression? Who advised? Who sold them their weapons systems?

So what to do? The Bush admin has had such good relations with Putin. They were such buddies, how could this have happened to tarnish that strong friendship? Bush has come out with a strong statement against Russia’s actions, but what was missing was the ‘or else …’ in his official reaction. I guess this is what Kristol was trying to add. What about the business relationships that have developed the last few years with Russia. Why can’t our Gov threaten to put pressure on some of these investment opportunities they’ve been so favorable towards in the past?

However, the more I read into the events of last weekend, it appears the Georgean military decided to push it all the way and try to crush the sepratist movement altogether. Apparently, they destroyed all the sepratist infrastructure in Tskhinvali.

I guess it all comes down to whether you think the sepratist movement is legit or not. Demographically, when Georgia declared independance in ‘91 there were a lot more Georgians in Ossetia than there are now, and Russia has been directing nationalist propaganda and supporting militants in Ossetia and Abkhazia probably to keep the region in a state of flux so that it does not get a NATO invitation.

That being said, what was Saakasvili thinking? Its like Salman Rushdie going to India on a book tour. Even if you are morally justified, you just knew you were going to get F#$ked.

Russia is clearly going beyond “peacekeeping”, and in no way does Georgia’s actions warrant a regime change. They were waiting for something like this to happen, perhaps deliberately provoking it.

all I’m saying is that the waters are muddy.

My point exactly and we are in agreement on Kristol’s goofiness here.

Ha, ha, ha. This why I come to the Grand ole’ Donk – for lines like this. Accessing the “moral high ground” or the topography of geo-political morality in this region must be a difficult thing – but I’m sure your up to the spiritual task with your laser-sighted M-60 moral clarity gun.

For more than a decade and a half, South Ossetia has acted as an independent state, having voted twice to secede from Georgia. What’s more, Georgia has allowed this to go on and had recently proposed that South Ossetia could essentially act as an independent state, just so long as they agreed to still technically be a part of Georgia. This was rejected by the Ossetians because who would want the appearance of autonomy if it isn’t real?

So yes, Georgia can’t claim the moral high ground on this since they A) attacked a region they have treated as an independent state for nearly two decades and B) haven’t allowed the Ossetians to make official what they themselves essentially proposed, just in a different “Option B” format.

Somebody like Kristol, though, suggests much more direct action because of nebulous “what ifs” and all I’m saying is that the waters are muddy. I don’t think stating that much means I’m taking some big relativistic leap or that I appreciate Russia’s tactics either.

So, in a sense, we’ve pre-justified any military involvement in Georgia thanks to an event 15 years ago.

Georgia, an almost-kinda candidate for NATO, is attacked by Russia. Like our “friend” Kuwait, shouldn’t we be in there like white on rice?

As for reversing all of that progress, since when does the Bush Administration (or any administration) worry about a little thing like “regression”? Since our spy plane crashed in China back in 2001, it’s been the Regan Yearsâ„¢ all over again. Your ‘blasted Vulcan logic’ won’t work on Captain Bush and the Starship Free Enterprise. If there’s money to be made off of something, we’ll bomb it or let Mother Nature trash it. Since there’s very little oil and/or natural gas in Georgia (that hasn’t already been spoken for, anyway) I doubt Bush and Co. will care to go in. They’ll just shake their finger at Russia and say: “No! Bad Russia! Bad! No invading! No!”

Forget that you’re right. Forget also that the USMil is over-extended. Forget that our economy is in the crapper–all that matters is whether business interests want anything from the region.

Sorry to blather on and to be so cynical about it. I hope I was able to make sense there.

However, I do think Justin is right in saying the neo-cons are poorly suited for this crisis. This is going to take some cold-blooded realism — something neither party has proven adept at in recent years. We have to find that line that doesn’t allow Russia to “get away with it” while also not hightening global tensions to a dangerous level. I don’t have the answer at all. But people like Kristol aren’t helping by pretending the issue is an obvious matter of black-and-white and anyone who thinks differently is leading us down the path to WWIII.

Again, I admit that my knowledge of this region of the world is not great and perhaps, after some self-education, I’ll see the matter differently. But, right now, it seems very clouded in grays and lots of bad options for America.

and if California decided it wants to be its own country in the next few days, we should take the “moral high ground” and let them do so??

and if Mexico decides it wants Texas back, so it starts giving away passports to everyone that would care to take one… and then have elements within Texas keep attacking its neighboring states… when we go in to restore order, Mexico should just come up in an effort to defend its citizens against an American genocide and invade us? (okay maybe I’m getting carried away with the exact example)

………

If Georgia had simply given up South Ossetia and allowed them to become a sovereign nation, they could claim the moral high ground here.

Ha, ha, ha. This why I come to the Grand ole’ Donk – for lines like this. Accessing the “moral high ground” or the topography of geo-political morality in this region must be a difficult thing – but I’m sure your up to the spiritual task with your laser-sighted M-60 moral clarity gun.

It is nice to know that you’ve come around to my rather sincere appreciation for the Iron Claw of Russian authoritarism and Putin, specifically.

Now everybody say, “Ve vill crush dem like bugs!”