Back in 2005, Canada beat out the US for a new Toyota plant. One of the metrics that came out was that national health care lowered Toyota’s production costs on a per unit basis much more than the US.

Can’t ignore that.

Canada is moving away from big state thinking. But I’ll bet dollars to donuts that the movement will be more in the direction of making it more efficient instead of dismantling it altogether.

The US is at a point where we’re seeing the limits of the market. Health care is one. Whatever we end up with, it will be closer to creating the nation’s largest pool then using those numbers to beat the tar out of providers.

You’re projecting. Read David Kuo’s book on how “compassionate conservative” was smoke for “a shrewd play by Karl Rove”.

As I’ve said in a more recent comment, the first decade of the new century has been the GOP’s showcase for government. 7 years of total poltiical control. 8 years of pure supply-side economics. 8 years of near unregulated financial markets.

I’m glad you’re in Canada, because if this is the best they could do, then we need to go in a different direction.

Bush couldn’t have put through the corresponding cuts with his welfare for the rich tax cuts, because they would have zeroed out 80% of all domestic spending (you can’t say with a straight face he’d have cut defense spending or service to the national debt). If you listen to the hype, you’d think that the lion’s share of the US budget goes to domestic programs. In reality it’s not a very large portion of the budget. Go to the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities. It’s a non partisan site with solid numbers.

While some would say if you’re Canadian, zip it about our politics. However, I’d say that I love your country and would like a vacation place there.

I understand your disgust at one party politics. I live in Chicago. We’ve had one party for so long, the city GOP is a laughingstock. But we’ve got a mayor who, despite the grease of politics, is doing some good things with the city. But when it comes to the GOP, the trouble we have is that they truly say one thing to get elected, then do the same things they’ve been doing since the 80’s.

Bush ran as a “compassionate conservative” remember. He never truly hid what he wanted to do with government. And he had no one from the other party or even within his own to stop his worst impulses. Apart from his tax cuts (which he didn’t offset with responsible spending cuts; a position McCain was right about the first time), he governed domestically like a drunken liberal albeit with a conservative “spin”. So you’ll get no argument from me re: your criticism of most of his domestic record. It is shameful. McCain himself has statist tendencies, but I don’t think it will be as easy to paint him as McSame. Voters don’t appear to be buying it, at least for now anyway. Full party control of the government is a recipe for disaster. The first 6 years of Bush’s term proved that. Given the Dems even greater statist tendencies, I see no reason for why history will not repeat itself again.

Re: Europe. I stand by what I say. They are slowly and painfully trying to move away from their recent models with varying degrees of success and failure. They simply can’t afford them anymore and the price is getting higher and higher. It is that simple. Again, anyone who’s paying attention would know that. I am neither a conservative nor a liberal (though I used to be a liberal). I don’t give a crap about ideology. Not anymore. I care about what works best.

Listen, I live in Quebec, Canada. Most of what Obama proposes, we already have. We are I think the highest taxed part of North America. We get taxed on our friggin’ taxes. The only thing we don’t pay a tax on is water and air (for now at least). We can’t afford our system the way it is. Not anymore. Hell, even some of our socialists can see that. I am no longer a liberal not because I don’t want to believe their ideas and theories about government and society. I am no longer a liberal because I believe that most of their solutions and ideas are out of date. They worked a generation ago, but they do not work today. You are of course free to disagree.

Same big government, statist ideas….what is this based on?

You want big government, look at what BUSH brought. Runaway government spending to levels never seen in the history of the US. Since its inception, this country has generated a total of $9 trillion in debt–over half of that has occured while a Bush has been in office. Throw in Reagan and just around 70 percent of that debt was generated under three Republican presidents.

If you really believe what you say about your concern for out of control spending, and aren’t just spouting republican hyperbole, then you should be outraged. You’ve been sold a bill of goods.

Your derision of the conditions in Europe would be laughable if they were not so off base. Ever hear of the Human Development Index (HDI)? It is an index combining normalized measures of life expectancy, literacy, educational attainment, and GDP per capita for countries worldwide.

The US is not 12 and falling rapidly after 8 years of Bush. Nine of the 11 countries ahead of the US are European countries. Of the top 20 countries, 16 are in Europe.

Now, of course there are other advantanges to living in the US that are not calculated (though some of them have been eroded under Bush), and I am not suggesting the US is no longer a great country–it is.

But the utter nonses you spout shows you are not paying attention to the scary trend we are experiencing.

Obama’s ideas are the same big-government, statist ideas that liberals have been peddling for over a generation. There is a place where most of these ideas have been tried. It’s called Europe. And it’s no surprise that Europeans today, in varying degrees, are trying their best to untangle themselves from those ideas before they completely sink themselves. At least it would be no surprise if liberals were actually paying attention (think Sarkozy for one, Merkel for another) and they would know better than to try to import those ideas to America. Because, if you think it’s bad now, wait until the government gets as big as liberals want it to get (to do, presumably all that they think it SHOULD do), THEN you’ll have an idea of how bad it can really get. You’ll also find that you will be, as individual citizens, even more powerless (even more apathetic, even less self-reliant) than you are now the bigger the government gets, to change it or hold it to account. Government grows at the expense of individual liberty with all the consequences that flow from that. You really have no idea right now.

That she had to be told what to say is much, much more chilling. Some would say that the ability to handle teenagers gives people the skills to handle world leaders. I would say that’s fantasy.

For some reason, we lose our minds when it comes to politics. If a person came into your office who is bright, aggressive, eager to go a good job, but had no experience, we might hire them–but not for an executive position. Entry level, maybe slightly higher. But not top management.

Now some will say this applies to Obama. I will say that the votes he’s received during the primary season is an indicator that people feel he’s up for the job. Palin, or any other VP candidate hasn’t had to undergo this process. Which is why the top of the ticket is expected to nominate someone with a requisite level of gov’t management experience.

It’s a stain on McCain’s judgment to gamble with the republic this way.
He wins, he gets hospitalized for an extended time, and we’ve handed the country over to the equivalent of an intern. If we were in an emergency, something left us with only the youngest and least experienced, that’s one thing. But there are plenty of female Senators in the GOP who are much more qualified than Palin.

J. Harden, a lot of people support Obama because he’s exceptionally smart, and his ideas indicate process and thought instead of the latest iteration of 80’s conservative mythology. We haven’t had a smart person in the White House for the past 8 years. Americans, not just Dems and independents, have been embarrassed at the intellect of our George W. Bush. It’s actually refreshing and reassuring to see Americans appreciate the fact that some jobs need to be done by smart people, and they’re backing that up with their vote.

…And only a Republican like yourself could, after the state of affairs this country is in resulting from the past 8 years, look at themselves in the mirror and still rationalize that the experience level of Ms. Palin is equal to that of Mr. Obama.

When you hear the financial news tomorrow why don’t you ask yourself what your candidates will do to get us out of this very serious mess. Do I even care what the answers would be? Will you go to your bank and do exactly with what Ms. Palin would suggest for you to do with your hard earned money? Let’s see if i’ve been payin attention. Lower my taxes and regulate business less. Oh yea, and don’t mess around with the Free Trade Agreements we’ve done so well with to date. How’s that workin out for ya?

While I agree that you cannot say that just because these two guys are thinking it that all Republicans are thinking it, but let me ask you–as a reasonable observer of the political process, do you disagree with them?

“If this is what some Republicans are thinking, what are Independents thinking?” – jg

Well, Justin –
This is not what all Republicans are thinking. This is not even what most Republicans are thinking. This is what two Republicans are thinking. I’d have thought that the last time you took a few anecdotal quotes and then inferred some broad shared Independent perspective might have made you a bit more circumspect before doing it again. I’ll get back to you with the surveys when we have the answer to your question.