It would most definitely depend on how small a business. But based on what he said in the debate, “0″ in penalties, as a small business you would be exempt. But Businesses like Walgreens, WalMart, Target, and the like, yes, they would be penalized.

Now, it’s clear that you are a McCain man in this race, most likely a libertarian to some degree. This said, I’m guessing you don’t put much credentials in what Obama says, and that is fine. But if he says it, I have to trust that he means it, you however, do not have to abide by that. But you can’t go out spreading misleading information.

Taxes, especially at lower levels (which, by the way, the US has _relatively_ low taxes) do not distort as much as Lafferites and supply-siders would have us think. This whole business about Obama wanting to raise taxes solely to redistribute wealth is non-sense, he and his advisers are smarter than to think that will have a positive effect on this country.

Secondly, there is a great argument for raising taxes on the wealthy to reduce the federal deficit which is itself a drag on the economy. The wealthy are the ones who directly benefit from a reduction in the federal deficit as they are the ones typically engaging in investments through loanable funds. I’ve talked about crowding out before, I don’t think anyone wants to hear it again (if they even read it the first time).

Also, no one votes against their own interest unless they lack information. There is a broad spectrum of reasons that people vote, I for one am glad to see it is not solely based on tax plans.

If I, as a small business owner, choose not to provide healthcare to my employees, under Obama’s healthcare proposal what would the result for me be? Check it out and get back to me.

MW; once again, like Alan Stewart Carl, your viewpoints tricked me into assuming something that wasn’t true, so I apologize. You’d think someday I’d learn better. I still can’t imagine why anyone would put trust into the Repubs before giving the Dems the benefit of the doubt considering the recent past. The economic meltdown is the best example I can use to make this point. Cheers, and have a great day.

He makes a good point. If Obama’s tax plan is good for the economy, why did he say he would delay implementing it until the economy recovers, which I know he’s said on at least one occasion (fox news interview with O’Reilly when he pressed him on the issue)?

With that in mind, it’s hard to argue that Obama’s motivation for this tax plan is to stimulate the economy.

Obama said small business would be exempt. The End. Do you have any any backing on the green initiative business? I believe that it would be a tax credit incentive program, if anything. So if you buy greener vehicles you are rewarded. I would hardly consider that a penalty. Don’t just spout off things that can’t be verified.

Also, Joe the Plumber shouldn’t even be working as a plumber, as he is not licensed as a plumber in Ohio. I would also assume this means he is non-union. Ohio is a big union state, so I would imagine Joe should get his priorities straight if he wants to get to that $200,000 mark and own his own business. And he should pay his taxes as well.

From Obama’s tax plan:

“Ordinary Income: The top two income tax brackets would return to their 1990’s levels of 36% and 39.6%. All other tax brackets would remain as they are today. Obama would also restore the 1990’s levels for the personal exemption and itemized deduction phaseouts (known as PEP and Pease). Obama would work with the Treasury Department to adjust the thresholds of these rates slightly to ensure that no married couple making less than $250,000 (or single making less than $200,000) was affected by these changes.”

Now, I know he told Joe the Plummer that all of his income under $250,000 would not be taxed more, but does it say that anywhere in his official plan? I admit I haven’t read all of it, but at least this part does not make that clear. It says people making less won’t be affected (I assume he means negatively) but as you point out Justin, that’s not the same thing, and if tax brackets stay the way they are, that means some income under $250,000 is actually taxed more.

In addition, Obama has consistently framed his tax plan as “families under $250,000 will not pay more taxes” which also is not the same as you are saying Justin. So can you blame people for being confused?

I have more to say regarding self-interest, but I’ll see if this comment works first…

I think that as a small business owner, people like this plummer person (sorry, couldn’t help but do the intentional misspell) are potentially facing a large number of tax-related increases that are outside the current discussion of “income taxes.” What about required healthcare for the plummer workers? Associated penalties if he doesn’t provide them? Tax penalties if his business isn’t green enough? If he drives gas-guzzling trucks to the job site? Just doesn’t seem like it’s going to create an environment that is going to re-invigorate the economy. It doesn’t matter if I pay a few dollars less in taxes as a middle class guy when I don’t have a job because my employer’s profit margins have shrunk to the point where they need to reduce staff.

Karl Rove, Lee Atwater and the like have this formula for right-wing success down to a science. Elections are about emotions, not logic. Pin a nasty label on your opponent, make it stick and you can talk about reason and self interest till you are blue in the face and it will not sway the converted.

Why does Obama want to delay his tax increases on the wealthy if our economy is in recession? Since people earning less than “Joe Plumber,” or as Joe Biden calls them, “the real Joe Plumbers,” are suffering worse than rich people, shouldn’t Obama tax rich people and give it to the less fortunate now more than ever? It seems Obama knows that his populist rhetoric is just rhetoric, and that economic growth is the only way to a healthy economy, rather than “spreading the wealth around”

By the way, Justin, what do you think about tax rebate checks for people with no tax liability? A cash payment for not being successful. Would you call it a handout?

@boiler1117 – If you think I’m wrong, then correct me. Don’t just tell me I’m wrong…show it.

Also, I’m obviously talking about the progressive taxation that comes with the earned income tax. We all know we have to pay other taxes beyond income tax, like the payroll tax. And yes, it sucks that the self employed have to pay the entire 12.4%, but that’s only on the first $110,000. After that, there are no payroll taxes.

So, again, I don’t think that Joe wouldn’t have to pay anything beyond the additional 3% on the first dollar he made over $250,000.

Am I wrong here?

By the way people, after talking with a handful of my coworkers who are VERY smart people, they didn’t realize how the progressive taxation system works. I’m not saying this extends to everybody, but I bet you that there are a good number of people out there who think that once you fall into a certain tax bracket, ALL of your income gets taxed at that rate.

…you’ve been sincerely missed

I question your sincerity, but thanks anyway. I was on a family fishing trip for two weeks, and then spent a week staring in paralyzed horror at the TV watching CNBC and the trainwreck of what we have wrought in the financial markets.

…the telecom immunity bill you refer to was explained by Obama thoroughly…public financing issue was also well thought out …

I agree. Obama and Axelrod are very very good and extremely eloquent at thinking out and explaining why they have to lie, break promises, and renege on commitments. They are as good as it gets. I an sure they will be equally good at thinking through and eloquently explaining why they have to break their promise not to increase taxes on anyone making less than $250K.

BTW – I voted straight Dem in 2006, Kerry for President in 2004 and Al Gore in 2000, all to keep divided government. I am supporting John McCain now for the same reason.

Once again you’re spouting out neocon campaign talking points that, no matter how many times this Republican ideology bites you in the ass, you keep poppin up and squirt out some more painful nonsence. BTW, it’s nice to hear from you again, you’ve been sincerely missed, despite your B.S.

First, the telecom immunity bill you refer to was explained by Obama thoroughly as choosing the lesser of two evils. He elected to let the phone co’s off the hook to stop a greater evil, as I would have.

The public financing issue was also well thought out and – good for him – a Democrat finally decides to play hardball and do what it takes to structure a winning team. Obama’s campaign has outplanned and outperformed McCain’s and it’s what good leadership is all about. What a difference that will make in getting this country out from economic crisis.

As far as trusting Obama’s proposed budget spending promises, I empathize with your cinicism, considering the previous eight years from your last presidential choice, I can see how you don’t trust your Government officials. Why not give this obviously different scenario a chance? How certainly couldn’t do any worse!

I’m willing to guess you don’t have an expert knowledge of taxes on small businesses work, the different variations, or numbers in general given your above post (it is sort of okay, most people don’t, but then again, most people don’t write blogs pretending they do).

You have my email address. If dollar $250,001 is only taxes at only 3% more than current under Obama, I will send you $100 in the mail. If it is more than 3%, then you send me $1.

Deal?

p.s. One thing I have to point out is please please look up why the payroll tax is capped where. There is a good reason for it. It’s not welfare chief.

p.p.s. Please look how small businesses pay payroll tax also, ugh.

I am rapidly approaching the point where my self interest would lie on the GOP side of the fence, but I personally can’t stomach the rest of the ticket (Evangelical Christianity, Faith-based anything, Abstinence only, anti-gay, Xenophbia, etc), so I feel compelled to stay to the left. I had a real dilemma in the 2000 election, but that tapered off quite a bit over the last 8 years.

Obama made explicit commitments to fight Telecom immunity and take Public financing of his campaign when he needed to stay left of Dodd and Clinton in the early primaries. Both were dropped as soon as he secured the nomination.

We already know for absolute fact that there is no budget for the litany of wildly expensive promises Obama is making in his acceptance speech and during the campaign. The canard that he can save enough from getting out of Iraq is nonsense. GWB is leaving the military in shambles and it will have to be rebuilt. We will not be out in a meaningful way before 2011 regardless of who is president. So where is this money going to come from?

Obama’s choice as President is to either renege on the spending promises and do nothing or renege on the $250K limit to pay for them. What do you think he will do? I think Joe the Plumber is voting in his interest. I think Justin the Blogger is incredibly naive if he thinks the $250K limit is anything but an empty promise that will dropped like a hot potato by February. I think Joe the Plumber is smarter and more realistic than Justin the Blogger.

It is time for everyone to share the wealth.

It is Obama time.

Currently, I clean toilets for a living and have several outstanding debts.

However, in a fictional time and place, I am a wealthy playboy who travels the world in my yacht, seeking adventure and rooting out injustice. Which candidate’s tax plan benefits me most?

Thanks in advance.

Joe the Plumber may not get to vote in Ohio anyway due to the Republican voter registration lawsuit. His name is misspelled on his registration and the Republicans want to crack down on voters with such discrepancies.

But, hey if he wants to vote Republican, that’s his choice… Oh, wait… it might not be anymore.