I don’t know how you can compare the importance of the endorsement from such an important, distinguished figure as Colin Powell, a key figure in the history of the present Republican Admin, with the symbolic representation of a ‘concerned citizen’

Well, you can compare anything — it’s the result of that comparison that’s telling. I’m pretty sure I was on the “Powell is far more important” side with this post.

Lit3: there’s a difference between taxes that go towards government services and taxes that are taken from one tax payer and handed directly to another. The question is: does the guy making $250k a year have a responsibility to hand the guy make $20k a year a check? That, in an admitedly crude example, is how the Obama tax plan is designed to work. It’s cool if you’re ok with it. But I’m surprised how many Democrats can’t see why many others find that kind of “sharing” to be based on bad principles.

I have no problem with taxes. But I do care how they’re used. I’d much prefer spending taxes on job training, student loans, relocation services and other opportunity creating programs rather than just giving people cash. I want us to be an opportunity society. Not a welfare one. Unfortunately for me, McCain is just using this issue to rev up the base and is not proposing real alternatives. That leaves a guy like me in a bind. Do you vote for the guy with the bad plan but right intentions or the guy with no serious plan?

Seriously, how anti-tax are you? It may be just me, but I’d prefer higher taxes in exchange for a government and services that work. Please note how successful how tax cuts and rebate checks from the government have saved the economy. Viva la American consumer!

Also, about Colin’s endorsement, I have a simple rebuttal/example how ridiculous attacks on him have been.

If you vote for McCain, it’s only because you’re white.

Think about it.

As for Joe, November 5th he’ll be forgotten and allowed to go back to his life, unless the liberal elite have plans to continue to punish him for his direct dissension in the presence of the special one. Muwahaha

I don’t know how you can compare the importance of the endorsement from such an important, distinguished figure as Colin Powell, a key figure in the history of the present Republican Admin, with the symbolic representation of a ‘concerned citizen’ who turned out to be a partisan hack full of B.S. Are we having this much trouble discerning reality from fiction simply because the the untruths are accepted as political spin?

As for Obama’s tax policies, I don’t think you can make a fair judgment given this unfair scenario posed by Joe the Asscrack…err plumber…dude…whatever. Obama tried to honestly answer a question that was asked dishonestly as a means of making a partisan statement – increasing taxes are bad. You’re a bad liberal so and so for proposing a tax plan that would keep me from reaching my goal, the American Dream. I don’t know what’s more pathetic; this guys B.S. question or the McCain campaign trying to capitalize on the ‘emotions’ generated from it. Look at the facts of the candidates tax plans, and decide what works for you.

if you listen to people who are know what they’re talking about, like Collin Powell and, oh I don’t know, maybe like Warren Buffet, you’ll be able to make a well informed decission that will help us out of the mess we’re in. Mr. Buffet is the guy who’s embarrassed that he gets taxed on his income less then the lady who cleans his office and takes out his trash. It’s really not right the the richest man in the world gets so easily red in the face. I wonder why John McCain doesn’t blush so easily!

As for digging into Joe’s background. Other than succumbing to the allure of the spotlight, what has he done to deserve having his problem’s broadcast across America? Even before he’d done a single major interview, liberal blogs had dug up his tax records. That’s not fighting back against the deification. That’s fighting dirty. I would think the better approach would be to start some kind of Plumbers for Obama group to highlight how Obama is actually better for the working man than McCain.

Ag: That’s a pretty harsh analysis of Joe. No need to demean the man.

Again an argument for unions. There are few illegals in unions, it’s much harder to pull that off. They may be mexican or polish or whatever, and maybe with limited english skills, but they are still americans. So the illegals taking the jobs is bull, and ask any union guy, the jobs that illegals get on are small beans, some non-union cities have whole crews of guys who might be like joe the plumber. Perhaps knowledgeable, but not necessarily legal or licensed to do his job. There is actually a reason they license plumbers, and not so much other trades. So, yeah, plumbers don’t have weaker labor standards, and nor is it the “evil” illegal immigrants (code for Mexican), that are the problem there. It is companies that see their bottom lined raised by not paying their labor what they’re worth, or doing their due diligence to verify that an employee is legal (especially since it benefits them).

–Ag

Alan Stewart Carl responds to a Christian Science Monitor article that looks at the effect of Colin Powell?s endorsement versus Joe the Plumber?s symbolic resonance. The moderate blogger opines: “Do people care more about the decision of a statesman…

For me, Joe is what has worked for the GOP, and what hasn’t worked for the Dems. The GOP has done an excellent job at creating the emotional underpinings for his support; no matter whether the reality of their programs cheat him. He understands that, and that’s what he’s gonna do when/if he’s that successful

The Dems haven’t done a very good job in mattering in his life. They caved on protecting unions, trying to become Republican lite, and had a difficult time coming up with ideas that weren’t New Deal or Great Society rehashes. Opposing wars and not focusing on military strength.

Dems have a window of opportunity to matter in people’s lives again. I think Obama gets it. The question is, will Congress?

Good article… but the follow-up comments are better! And while those comments probably aren’t in any way representative of the voting electorate, let’s pretend, just for a moment, that they are, even a little bit; what does that say about how people are viewing this situation?

I agree with one of the early respondents, who brought up those other “plumbers” from GOP days gone by.

As to Joe Wurzelbacher and what he may or may not represent: I think all he represents are half-hearted slackers with pipe dreams about being big players, while having little or no dedication, drive, fortitude etc. to make those dreams happen. Joe Wurlezbacher represents about what you’d get if George Bailey never went to college, let go of the old Bailey Building and Loan, took the first decent-paying job he could get from Old Man Potter, and put Life on “AutoPilot”… never daring to step out on his own, despite talking about the idea every weekend night over endless drinks at Martini’s.

Sounds like a wonderful life, doesn’t it?

Agnostick
agnostick@excite.com

As for “the kind of invasion of privacy and snide treatment he’s received from certain segments of the left” I certainly don’t care for the snide, but the “ïnvasion” is a direct result of the deification of Joe the Plumber.

Is Obama simply supposed to go along with this deification?

Because he asked Obama a question that has been the elephant in the room, but none of the media dared to comment on. Obama’s answer made it obvious why no one in the media had asked him.

I just don’t see a Powell endorsement changing any minds. I missed most of the joe-the-plumber stuff, but I understand why in modern campaigning it’s necessary to climb aboard whatever opportunity train shows up at the station. The big problem for McCain is not over-plumping Joe Plumber. It’s the iffy argument that its necessary to CHOOSE between sharing the wealth and creating opportunity. Sure, there’s a relationship, but it’s not exactly zero-sum.

GOP pro-business policies have probably run their course, and the current downturn sort of turns that battle into a rout. I mean, RW partisans are still talking about the supposed beneficial effects of diminishing the capital gains tax. What percent of Americans even PAYS a capital gains tax in a normal year, let alone this year? How tin an ear do you need to keep shipping less government and more opportunity in the current climate?

A substantial majority of Americans at this point feels like they’ve been waiting for that promised extra opportunity for a long time, and it never arrived. The GOP needs to go back to the drawing board to come up with a platform for the early 21st century. The candidate is dated, the party is dated. Folks, Republicans are just plain out of style. They need a makeover. As long as the economy is as screwed up as it is, they better have something more compelling than to call Obama a socialist. The thing is, socialism doesn’t look so bad these days. Aint that a B, Newt?